Comment author: Psychohistorian 21 December 2009 05:31:38AM *  12 points [-]

"Reason" does not appear to be the right term here. "Cleverness" comes to mind as a better substitute, though I suspect there are better terms. The banking crisis occurred because people thought they were too clever. The various problematic causes you mention all appear to overestimate their own cleverness. It's also unclear to me what it would mean for them to rely on reason less, and how this would cause their worldview to better match reality.

I think this might be best phrased as an objection to an overreliance on clever theories and a tendency to eschew evidence in favor of cleverness. Insofar as that is your point, it is an excellent if not novel one. But the way this is phrased is a bit more antagonistic than I think is merited, and seems to attack a type of thought rather than a specific error that a type of thought is prone to.

If my semantic distinction does not make sense, let me just explain my connotations. When I hear "reason," I tend to think of it much like "rational;" one definitionally cannot make a mistake through being too rational, in that rationality is the thing that having more of it causes you not to make mistakes. "Cleverness," on the otherhand, brings the same intellectual sleight-of-hand without any connotation of accuracy. The sentence, "Bob lost all his money because he was too reasonable," does not really make sense, whereas, "Bob lost all of his money because he was too clever," does. A good example of being too clever would be the demise of Vizzini from the Princess Bride.

Comment author: simpleton 21 December 2009 07:04:32AM 4 points [-]

Yes.

The things Shalmanese is labeling "reason" and "evidence" seem to closely correspond to what have been previously been called the inside view and outside view, respectively (both of which are modes of reasoning, under the more common definition).

Comment author: taw 29 September 2009 06:24:58AM 1 point [-]

My main argument is that most likely none of us really knows enough about mathematics of quantum mechanics to follow emergence of patterns of observable universe out of MWI. My quantum maths stops at quantum computing, which is MWI-interpretable, and Copenhagen-interpretable equally well.

The second argument is that our view of physics is incomplete - we don't know about quantum gravity, our cosmology is ridiculous, filled with inflation, dark matter, dark energy etc., we don't know if there are any tiny non-linearities in 200th decimal place with quantum systems (no physical law so far withstood this). MWI completely fails if any such non-linearities are present, while other theories can handle them. Quantum computers are also spectacularly precise quantum effect measurement devices, so we might find that out.

I find the case for MWI decent, but nowhere near as overwhelming as the usual examples of theism and marijuana legalization. It can collapse with one experiment, and I'm not betting against such experiment happening in my lifetime at odds higher than 10:1.

Here's amusing quantum effect to think about

Comment author: simpleton 29 September 2009 04:17:29PM 6 points [-]

MWI completely fails if any such non-linearities are present, while other theories can handle them. [...] It can collapse with one experiment, and I'm not betting against such experiment happening in my lifetime at odds higher than 10:1.

So you're saying MWI tells us what to anticipate more specifically (and therefore makes itself more falsifiable) than the alternatives, and that's a point against it?

Comment author: Alicorn 10 August 2009 05:24:35AM 1 point [-]

Unless there's akrasia involved. I can only imagine how tempting it would be to just outright buy a house if I were suddenly handed a million dollars, no matter how sternly I told myself not to just outright buy a house.

Comment author: simpleton 10 August 2009 06:02:23AM *  9 points [-]

And the best workaround you can come up with is to walk away from the money entirely? I don't buy it.

If you go through life acting as if your akrasia is so immutable that you have to walk away from huge wins like this, you're selling yourself short.

Even if you're right about yourself, you can just keep $1000 [edit: make that $3334, so as to have a higher expected value than a sure $500] and give the rest away before you have time to change your mind. Or put the whole million in an irrevocable trust. These aren't even the good ideas; they're just the trivial ones which are better than what you're suggesting.

Comment author: Alicorn 10 August 2009 03:04:53AM 2 points [-]

Another possible sane motivation for taking the $500 is a familiarity with how commonly lottery winners find their lives ruined by the sudden influx of cash.

Comment author: simpleton 10 August 2009 03:34:10AM 4 points [-]

Being aware of that tendency should make it possible to avoid ruination without forgoing the money entirely (e.g. by investing it wisely and not spending down the principal on any radical lifestyle changes, or even by giving all of it away to some worthy cause).

Comment author: Alicorn 15 July 2009 05:30:08AM 11 points [-]

Solipsism? Isn't there some contradiction inherent in believing in solipsism because someone else tells you that you should?

Comment author: simpleton 15 July 2009 06:07:19AM 6 points [-]

Well, I wouldn't rule out any of:

1) I and the AI are the only real optimization processes in the universe.

2) I-and-the-AI is the only real optimization process in the universe (but the AI half of this duo consistently makes better predictions than "I" do).

3) The concept of personal identity is unsalvageably confused.

Comment author: Alicorn 15 July 2009 04:26:51AM *  9 points [-]

For me, in just about every case, the credence I'd assign to an AI's wacky claims would depend on its ability to answer followup questions. For instance, in Eliezer's examples:

1) Tin-foil hats actually do block the Orbital Mind Control Lasers

What Orbital Mind Control Lasers? Who uses them? What do they do with them? Why haven't they come up with a way to get around the hats?

2) All mathematical reasoning involving "infinities" involves self-evident contradictions, but human mathematicians have a blind spot with respect to them.

I'm actually strangely comfortable with this one, possibly because I'm bad at math.

3) You are not above-average; most people believe in the existence of a huge fictional underclass in order to place themselves at the top of the heap, rather than in the middle. This is why so many of your friends seem to have PhDs despite PhDs supposedly constituting only 0.5% of the population. You are actually in the bottom third of the population; the other two-thirds have already built their own AIs.

Why haven't I heard of any of these other AIs before? How do all of the people producing statistics indicating that there are a lot of dumb people coordinate their efforts to perpetuate the fiction?

4) The human bias toward overconfidence is far deeper than we are capable of recognizing; we have a form of species overconfidence which denies all evidence against itself. Humans are much slower runners than we think, muscularly weaker, struggle to keep afloat in the water let alone move, and of course, are poorer thinkers.

Why do so few of us die of drowning (or any of the other things that would kill us if we were so dramatically more pathetic than we believe)? If this bias is so pervasive, why can I see these words on the AI's screen, when it seems that I should block them out as with all over evidence that we are pathetic in this way?

5) Dogs, cats, cows, and many other mammals are capable of linguistic reasoning and have made many efforts to communicate with us, but humans are only capable of recognizing other humans as capable of thought.

If we have this incapability, what explains the abundant fiction in which nonhuman animals (both terrestrial and non) are capable of speech, and childhood anthropomorphization of animals? Can you teach me to talk to the stray cat in my neighborhood? Why only mammals, not birds and the like? What about people who are actively trying to communicate with animals like gorillas, or are those not capable of communication?

6) Humans cannot reproduce without the aid of the overlooked third sex.

Are they overlooked in the sense that people we can otherwise detect are not recognized as being part of this sex, or in the sense that we literally do not notice the existence of the members of this sex? In the former case, how do so many people manage to reproduce without apparently wanting to or involving third parties? In the latter case, how can I get in touch with these people? By what mechanism are they involved in human reproduction?

7) The Earth is flat.

Are we talking Euclidean spacetime here? What is the explanation for the observations of a spheroid Earth?

8) Human beings are incapable of writing fiction; all supposed fiction you have read is actually true.

In this universe? What about stories with plot holes? I think that I have written fiction in the past; am I in causal contact with the events I describe? When I make an edit that changes the plot, how does that work? What about people who write self-insertions?

Comment author: simpleton 15 July 2009 05:30:06AM 14 points [-]

If we have this incapability, what explains the abundant fiction in which nonhuman animals (both terrestrial and non) are capable of speech, and childhood anthropomorphization of animals?

That's not anthropomorphization.

Can you teach me to talk to the stray cat in my neighborhood?

Sorry, you're too old. Those childhood conversations you had with cats were real. You just started dismissing them as make-believe once your ability to doublethink was fully mature.

All of the really interesting stuff, from before you could doublethink at all, has been blocked out entirely by infantile amnesia.

Comment author: simpleton 15 July 2009 05:11:41AM 11 points [-]

I would believe that human cognition is much, much simpler than it feels from the inside -- that there are no deep algorithms, and it's all just cache lookups plus a handful of feedback loops which even a mere human programmer would call trivial.

I would believe that there's no way to define "sentience" (without resorting to something ridiculously post hoc) which includes humans but excludes most other mammals.

I would believe in solipsism.

I can hardly think of any political, economic, or moral assertion I'd regard as implausible, except that one of the world's extant religions is true (since that would have about as much internal consistency as "2 + 2 = 3").

Comment author: thomblake 26 May 2009 03:18:46PM *  0 points [-]

I think you're misreading 'beat'. In the context of a drug deal, being 'beat' is getting less than you paid for. I'm pretty sure the kid was saying that if he didn't do the math properly, he'd be cheated on the transaction - I don't think it was a comment about corporal punishment.

Though I haven't seen the show, so I could be wrong.

ETA: simpleton, below, has cleared it up.

Comment author: simpleton 26 May 2009 03:43:42PM 2 points [-]

The actual quote didn't contain the word "beat" at all. It was "Count be wrong, they fuck you up."

Comment author: timtyler 25 May 2009 04:22:35PM *  -2 points [-]

Well, that went down well.

This is not a new phenomenon:

http://bringontheendtimes.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/end-nigh.jpg

Are there any other plausible explanations for the cult of the apocalypse?

The end of the world is, after all, probably the single most repeated incorrect prediction of all time. The world has repeatedly stubbornly refused to end for thousands of years now - and yet for many the clock always seems to stand at five-minutes-to-midnight.

Comment author: simpleton 26 May 2009 12:48:24AM 3 points [-]

The fact that we find ourselves in a world which has not ended is not evidence.

Comment author: simpleton 25 May 2009 06:12:29AM 2 points [-]

lesswrong.com's web server is in the US but both of its nameservers are in Australia, leading to very slow lookups for me -- often slow enough that my resolver times out (and caches the failure).

I am my own DNS admin so I can work around this by forcing a cache flush when I need to, but I imagine this would be a more serious problem for people who rely on their ISPs' DNS servers.

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