Comment author: ruelian 04 October 2016 02:08:04PM *  0 points [-]

I think the basic problem here is an undissolved question: what is 'intelligence'? Humans, being human, tend to imagine a superintelligence as a highly augmented human intelligence, so the natural assumption is that regardless of the 'level' of intelligence, skills will cluster roughly the way they do in human minds, i.e. having the ability to take over the world implies a high posterior probability of having the ability to understand human goals.

The problem with this assumption is that mind-design space is large (<--understatement), and the prior probability of a superintelligence randomly ending up with ability clusters analogous to human ability clusters is infinitesimal. Granted, the probability of this happening given a superintelligence designed by humans is significantly higher, but still not very high. (I don't actually have enough technical knowledge to estimate this precisely, but just by eyeballing it I'd put it under 5%.)

In fact, autistic people are an example of non-human-standard ability clusters, and even that's only by a tiny amount in the scale of mind-design-space.

As for an elevator pitch of this concept, something like "just because evolution happened design our brains to be really good at modeling human goal systems, doesn't mean all intelligences are good at it, regardless of how good they might be at destroying the planet".

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 05 October 2016 01:14:15PM 2 points [-]

the prior probability of a superintelligence randomly ending up with ability clusters analogous to human ability clusters is infinitesimal. Granted, the probability of this happening given a superintelligence designed by humans is significantly higher, but still not very high. (I don't actually have enough technical knowledge to estimate this precisely, but just by eyeballing it I'd put it under 5%.)

Possibly the question is to what extent is human intelligence a bunch of hardcoded domain-specific algorithms as opposed to universal intelligence. I would have thought that understanding human goals might not be very different from other AI problems. Build a really powerful inference system, and if you feed it a training set of cars driving, it learns to drive, feed it data of human behaviour, and it learns to predict human behaviour, and probably to understand goals. Now its possible that the amount of general intelligence needed to develop advanced nanotech is less then the intelligence needed to understand human goals and the only reason why this seems counter intuitive is because evolution has optimised our brains for social cognition, but this does not seem obviously true to me.

Comment author: turchin 04 October 2016 11:04:37PM 0 points [-]

Yes. So we have to utilise this knowledge. We could said something like: Terminator appear because its progenitor, Skynet computer, received a command to protect US, and concluded that the best way to do it is to prevent humans from switching him off, and so he decided to exterminate humans. So Terminator appear because of unsolved problem of value alignment.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 05 October 2016 01:00:40PM 0 points [-]

Is that the canon explanation? I thought Skynet was acting out of self-preservation.

Comment author: ChristianKl 04 October 2016 05:18:09PM *  1 point [-]

If all it takes to ensure FAI is to instruct "henceforth, always do what humans mean, not what they say" then FAI is trivial.

(1) Given that humans have more than one wish it's not possible to always do what humans mean.
(2) What do you think human mean when some humans say that homosexual sex is bad because it violates god's wishes?

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 05 October 2016 12:59:08PM 0 points [-]

(1) Given that humans have more than one wish it's not possible to always do what humans mean.

Human values may not be consistent, but this is a separate failure mode.

(2) What do you think human mean when some humans say that homosexual sex is bad because it violates god's wishes?

Much of the time this statement could be taken at face value. I may not believe in god, but that does not make "god hates fags" an incoherent statement, just a false one.

Comment author: philh 05 October 2016 09:25:15AM 0 points [-]

It's not necessarily that the AI would have difficulty understanding what "do what humans mean" means, even before being told to do what humans mean.

It just has no reason to obey "do what humans mean" unless we program it to do what humans mean.

"Do what humans mean" is telling the AI to do something that we can currently only specify vaguely. "Figure out what we intend by "do what humans mean", and then do that" is also vaguely specified. It doesn't solve the problem.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 05 October 2016 12:54:21PM 0 points [-]

It just has no reason to obey "do what humans mean" unless we program it to do what humans mean.

I'm not disputing that this is also a problem, indeed perhaps a harder problem than figuring out what humans mean. In fact there are many failure modes, I was just wondering why people seem to focus in on specifically the fickle genie failure mode to the exclusion of others.

Comment author: SoerenE 04 October 2016 01:27:42PM 2 points [-]

No, a Superintelligence is by definition capable of working out what a human wishes.

However, a Superintelligence designed to e.g. calculate digits of pi would not care about what a human wishes. It simply cares about calculating digits of pi.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 04 October 2016 04:18:16PM 0 points [-]

If all it takes to ensure FAI is to instruct "henceforth, always do what humans mean, not what they say" then FAI is trivial.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 04 October 2016 05:23:48AM *  3 points [-]

I've been thinking about what seems to be the standard LW pitch on AI risk. It goes like this: "Consider an AI that is given a goal by humans. Since 'convert the planet into computronium' is a subgoal of most goals, it does this and kills humanity."

The problem, which various people have pointed out, is that this implies an intelligence capable of taking over the world, but not capable of working out that when a human says pursue a certain goal, they would not want this goal to be pursued in a way that leads to the destruction of the world.

Worse, the argument can then be made that this idea that an AI will interpret goals so literally without modelling a human mind constitutes an "autistic AI" and that only autistic people would assume that AI would be similarly autistic. I do not endorse this argument in any way, but I guess its still better to avoid arguments that signal low social skills, all other things being equal.

Is there any consensus on what the best 'elevator pitch' argument for AI risk is? Instead of focusing on any one failure mode, I would go with something like this:

"Most philosophers agree that there is no reason why superintelligence is not possible. Anything which is possible will eventually be achieved, and so will superintelligence, perhaps in the far future, perhaps in the next few decades. At some point, superintelligences will be as far above humans as we are above ants. I do not know what will happen at this point, but the only reference case we have is humans and ants, and if superintelligences decide that humans are an infestation, we will be exterminated."

Incidentally, this is the sort of thing I mean by painting LW style ideas as autistic (via David Pierce)

As far as we can tell, digital computers are still zombies. Our machines are becoming autistically intelligent, but not supersentient - nor even conscious. [...] Full-Spectrum Superintelligence entails: [...] social intelligence [...] a metric to distinguish the important from the trivial [...] a capacity to navigate, reason logically about, and solve problems in multiple state-spaces of consciousness [e.g. dreaming states (cf. lucid dreaming), waking consciousness, echolocatory competence, visual discrimination, synaesthesia in all its existing and potential guises, humour, introspection, the different realms of psychedelia [...] and finally "Autistic", pattern-matching, rule-following, mathematico-linguistic intelligence, i.e. the standard, mind-blind cognitive tool-kit scored by existing IQ tests. High-functioning "autistic" intelligence is indispensable to higher mathematics, computer science and the natural sciences. High-functioning autistic intelligence is necessary - but not sufficient - for a civilisation capable of advanced technology that can cure ageing and disease, systematically phase out the biology of suffering, and take us to the stars. And for programming artificial intelligence.

Sometimes David Pierce seems very smart. And sometimes he seems to imply that the ability to think logically while on psychedelic drugs is as important as 'autistic intelligence'. I don't think he thinks that autistic people are zombies that do not experience subjective experience, but that also does seem implied.

Comment author: scarcegreengrass 20 September 2016 08:49:06PM 0 points [-]

The preceding comments are a good example of Less Wrong users taking a contentious disagreement and coming to a courteous equilibrium. Impressive.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 22 September 2016 11:07:26PM 1 point [-]

Thanks!

Comment author: chron 21 September 2016 04:51:33AM 2 points [-]

Ok, would you extend that logic to other undesirable traits, including ones that correlate with race?

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 21 September 2016 11:26:51AM 0 points [-]

Well, firstly I'm saying this should be voluntary, and most people are not going to try to commit genocide, especially against their own race. Secondly, do you realise that the number of kids people have already correlates strongly with race and religion? Although, the correlation is more that race correlates with religion and development which in turn causes fertility. I'm not claiming that race causes religion. Thirdly, aborting kids with horrible genetic deceases could actually raise the population after two generations, because the diseases would stop the kids from having kids of their own.

Generally, I don't find the argument "X is bad because it's affects correlates with race" to be plausible, because its so universal. It would stop you doing anything.

Comment author: selylindi 17 September 2016 03:32:06PM -3 points [-]

2) On political opinions, HBD is about an objective, falsifiable, scientifically mesureable characteristic of the world, whereas the other opinions are opinions.

That's not how I interpreted the item. This was a political quiz, so to my mind it's not about "Does X exist?", but "Do you favor more X than the status quo?" For example, liberal abortion laws exist, and feminism exists, and higher taxes exist. Similarly, HBD may exist depending on its precise definition. But what's politically relevant is whether you favor more liberal abortion laws, more feminism, more tax increases, more HBD. So it's quite likely that a substantial fraction of quiz-takers interpreted being "pro-HBD" as being simply an NRXish way of saying "pro-racist-policies".

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 20 September 2016 07:22:08PM 2 points [-]

liberal abortion laws exist

illiberal abortion laws exist too, in some countries. Maybe in future tests HBD should be split into "is HBD true?" and "do you want HBD to be true?" to avoid this sort of confusion.

But what's politically relevant is whether you favor more liberal abortion laws, more feminism, more tax increases, more HBD.

The government can raise taxes, it can't raise HBD.

Comment author: Good_Burning_Plastic 18 September 2016 07:36:16AM 1 point [-]

giant dinosaurs far bigger than the largest animal today

You mean largest land animal today. The blue whale is about the size of the largest dinosaur ever.

Comment author: skeptical_lurker 20 September 2016 07:18:25PM 1 point [-]

A valid nitpick, although sharks were also far bigger compared to modern sharks. Not sure to what extent this implies that there was more food.

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