Comment author: RobertLumley 13 October 2012 04:20:52AM 1 point [-]

The fact that there are 37 comments on this post (and similar posts) is rapidly convincing me that the new -5 karma penalty for replying to downvoted things is actually a really good idea.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 12:35:00PM -1 points [-]

I understand that a lot of issues are solved, like the existence of god and so on, but I for one still haven't gotten an appropriate explanation as to why my claim, which seems perfectly valid to me, is incorrect. That proposal is going to further hinder this kind of discussion and debate.

And as far as I can tell, I'm correct. It's honestly very concerning to me that a bunch of lesswrongers have failed to follow this line of reasoning to its natural conclusion. Maybe I'm just not using the correct community-specific shibboleths, but the only one who's actually followed through on the logic is gwern. I look forward to seeing his counter reply to this.

Comment author: DuncanS 13 October 2012 10:30:19AM -1 points [-]

If anyone accepts a pascals mugging style trade off with full knowledge of the problem,

Well, it's very well known that Pascal himself accepted it, and I'm sure there are others. So, off you go and do whatever it is you wanted to do.

To be honest, your ability to come through on this threat is a classic example of the genre - it's very, very unlikely that you are able to do it, but obviously the consequences if you were able to would be, er, quite bad. In this case my judgement of the probabilities is that we are completely justified in ignoring the threat.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 12:27:13PM 0 points [-]

In this case my judgement of the probabilities is that we are completely justified in ignoring the threat.

Do you consider my pascals mugging to be less likely then the general examples of the genre, or do you think that all pascals muggings" probabilities are that we are completely justified in ignoring the threat."

Comment author: BerryPick6 13 October 2012 02:18:29AM 0 points [-]

Are you saying that I should take some action with the knowledge that it might just be a quirk in the system? Like not posting my hypothesis?

Not at all. I was probably being unclear, I apologize.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 02:28:30AM 0 points [-]

Fair enough. Would you mind explaining your intent then?

Comment author: Epiphany 13 October 2012 02:17:03AM *  1 point [-]

Eliezer presented a counter solution similar to this on Overcoming Bias. search fu

Click here for Flimple Utility!!!

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 02:24:12AM 0 points [-]

Well done. Roryokane mentioned it up here however.

Comment author: BerryPick6 13 October 2012 02:08:29AM *  0 points [-]

I don't see why there has to be a solution to Pascal's Mugging. Is it so implausible to think that it's just a valid quirk in the system?

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 02:14:16AM -1 points [-]

Err, yes. Maybe it is. That's what I'm trying to find out...

Are you saying that I should take some action with the knowledge that it might just be a quirk in the system? Like not posting my hypothesis?

Comment author: Epiphany 13 October 2012 02:04:57AM *  2 points [-]

would be very interested if you could expand on why you wanted to see all of my failed attempts, instead of my one successful attempt?

Because all of the other people who want to start threads on solutions to Pascal's muggings will be more likely to find your thread and go "Oh, someone already did this." That will save us from similar "solutions to Pascal's mugging threads" in the future. The worse your search terms failed, the better - that way Pascal's mugging solvers with low search-fu skill (no quotes this time) will be likely to find the existing solutions.

P.S. It's better to put them into complete sentences to avoid search engine penalties.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 02:12:48AM 0 points [-]

Ahh, makes sense. I actually found many different and interesting solutions to pascals mugging with my search terms though. Just not this "counter" solution.

This thread already shows up pretty close to the top for searches of "pascals mugging solutions" that I've attempted. For that exact phrase it's number 3, and has been before you posted this. I don't know that this particular solution needs to be more closely associated with the search terms then it already is.

Comment author: Epiphany 13 October 2012 01:51:15AM *  3 points [-]

You're not thinking big enough. If anyone ever accepts a Pascal's mugging again, my fuzzy celery God will execute a worse Pascal's mugging than any other in existence no matter what the original Pascal's mugging is.

P.S. You'll never find out what muggings fuzzy celery God executes because they're always unpredictable. This makes them impossible to disprove.

(My brother always hated having fights like this with me.)

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 02:03:47AM -1 points [-]

If we have two gods, one claiming that if I do X, they'll mug me, and one claiming that if I don't do X they'll mug me, well I'm probably going to believe the god that isn't fuzzy and celery...

Comment author: Epiphany 13 October 2012 01:44:03AM *  0 points [-]

Why not put all the search terms you tried during your search-fu session into a comment. That will make this less likely to happen in the future.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 01:54:23AM 0 points [-]

Because I doubt I can remember all of them. Also, I'm not entirely clear on why you have "quotes" around search-fu. It's a pretty accepted term on the internet. Search-fu is the skill one is employing when searching for something.

A more reasonable question seems to me like asking how I arrived at the answer, not asking how I failed to arrive at the answer. I find it odd that you'd go that particular route, and would be very interested if you could expand on why you wanted to see all of my failed attempts, instead of my one successful attempt?

Seeing all my failed attempts is more difficult for me to write out (there were a few of them) and contains less usable information. I'm curios as to why you'd pick that instead of what seems to me like the more reasonable "post the search term that got you the answer".

Comment author: Epiphany 13 October 2012 01:39:20AM *  -2 points [-]

The fact that we're not dying off right now proves this untrue.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 01:41:33AM 1 point [-]

I never threatened to harm you. Yes, on average, you're significantly more likely to be in the torture group then where you are now, but anthropic principle and all that.

Comment author: roryokane 13 October 2012 01:10:18AM *  0 points [-]

A decision matrix is a very simple tool that can give an overview of an argument. Points for and against each alternative have positive and negative values.

However, if those values themselves depend on other calculations, or are interdependent, the decision matrix provides no way to display that, so it is not a complete modelling language.

Comment author: staticIP 13 October 2012 01:14:11AM 0 points [-]

Not quite in the same class as the listed software. Useful, I've used them, but they get really complicated with more variables. If you look at what they've got, it doesn't exactly seem bayesian. They don't work of probability, but off of absolute truths. Debating each piece of minutia in a sort of tree structure. It could definitely be improved upon.

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