Comment author: ChristianKl 04 March 2014 09:38:06AM 1 point [-]

Marx's ideas were perverted by Lenin and the totalitarian mess we saw last century derived from that.

That doesn't change that Marx carries some responsibility for what happened.

Terry Pratchett wrote somewhere that one person writes an innocent book about political philosophy and then the people who read the book don't get the jokes and other people have to pay for it in blood.

People payed in blood for the revolution in Egypt and now the freedom of speech in Egypt is less than it was before the revolution.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 10:12:43AM -1 points [-]

That doesn't change that Marx carries some responsibility for what happened.

This is like accusing a blacksmith for a murder someone did with a knife he created.

Responsibility lies with the ones who act in a destructive way or the ones who coerce others to act destructively.

Comment author: ChristianKl 03 March 2014 11:40:11PM 0 points [-]

Oh... I meant what would a single individual spend the money on, what would be the incentive to get more money for oneself.

If you would give me a million I would spend a significant part of that money on the project of defeating death. I would however spend that money in a very different way than the NIH.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 10:05:06AM -1 points [-]

Maybe NIH is not spending the money effectively. Maybe a rational discourse could make your way one of the official ways.

Comment author: ChristianKl 03 March 2014 11:38:40PM 1 point [-]

A society that addresses both types of parasitism through some kind of mechanism is a society in which money can quickly become meaningless. If you have adequate shelter, food, clothing and free access to education, entertainment and transportation what would you use the money for?

What does free access to education mean? Having a personal tutor is often a very effective way of learning. On the other hand it requires another person to invest time and that person frequently wants to be payed.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 10:03:33AM -1 points [-]

There are models of education where you become a partner once you understand the concepts. Something like Peer Instruction. You could have as a tutor a person from the same generation, a person who just happens to understand the concepts that you are trying to learn better. I did this for my friends with programming back in college.

Comment author: ChristianKl 03 March 2014 11:53:14PM 2 points [-]

I haven't proposed a totalitarian state. This is something that you inferred from what I've wrote.

Marx didn't propose a totalitarian state either. His ideas still lead to a totalitarian state. Ideas have consequences. If you don't know how the alternative will work to the status quo you want to destroy, than it makes sense to assume a bad outcome.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 07:19:01AM -1 points [-]

Marx's ideas were perverted by Lenin and the totalitarian mess we saw last century derived from that.

Also, I'm not advocating the destruction of the status quo but its transformation, its transcendence. I'm non-violent and I don't believe in forced societies. My hope is that we will outgrow the old ways.

Comment author: ChristianKl 03 March 2014 11:53:26PM 4 points [-]

MIRI exists because Peter Thiel is a billionaire and has free money to spend on courses he finds worthwhile. No representative body funds the kind of work MIRI is doing.

The private money that goes into space exploration and mining asteroids seems to be much smarter than NASA money.

Plurality is an important concept. Decentralizing resources is useful.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 07:12:18AM -1 points [-]

I agree with you. This is the world as we know it.

We are, however, exploring here. What would be the point of an exploration if we remain stuck in the old paradigms. Just because most of this world is a masked oligarchy where people with money control public policy does not mean that a more just and rational political representation can ever exist.

Comment author: Lumifer 04 March 2014 01:04:55AM 4 points [-]

Wouldn't be more useful to just provide a valid counter example

The success of capitalism is a valid counterexample.

Comment author: terasinube 04 March 2014 07:07:33AM -5 points [-]

non sequitur.

Just because you view capitalism as a form of success it does not follow that greed has pro-social outcomes.

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2014 09:56:34PM 2 points [-]

fidelity to truth is making sure the details are coherent with the way reality works

So, a simpler word would be "realistic".

Science doesn't tell you if you should be a sociopath of a pro-social person.

That's an interesting choice of values.

science can point at what values have a track record of providing this pro-social outcome. Cooperation, compassion, forgiveness... this have documented outcomes.

Links?

Greed, altho a value to some... is not something that has pro-social outcomes (not to my knowledge)

Then the success of capitalism must be a complete mystery to you.

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 10:28:18PM -2 points [-]

Links?

Start here:

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/

Then the success of capitalism must be a complete mystery to you.

Wouldn't be more useful to just provide a valid counter example instead of mocking me?

Comment author: Eloise 03 March 2014 05:54:37PM 9 points [-]

There are several confounding factors so it’s hard to know for sure, but I do think that Toastmasters has helped me improve at a specific sort of social interaction: having to talk when I don’t know a lot about a particular topic or when my thoughts aren’t well prepared. I’ve gotten a lot of practice at this with an exercise Toastmasters calls “Table Topics”. During Table Topics, each person goes up to the front, is given a prompt, and then gives a 1-2 minute impromptu speech on the given topic. Table topics force you to talk for at least one minute about topics you sometimes have no interest in or think you know nothing about, which has helped me develop some useful skills:

  1. I usually know more about things than I think I do, and quickly accessing this buried information is something I’ve gotten better at. I think I know almost nothing about football, but if I actually take some time to think about it, that’s not true. I have a vague understanding of the rules, and know about brackets and betting, and know some things about head injuries. I can talk about these things.

  2. I’ve gotten much better at taking a topic I’ve been given and transitioning to a related but more comfortable subject. I might be uncomfortable talking about the Superbowl for a minute, but I could transition to instead talking about other athletic competitions I know a lot about, like marathons and ultramarathons.

In non-Toastmasters settings, these skills have been useful when I’m trying to talk to people who have different interests, or when I’m put on the spot to talk about something I feel like I don’t know a lot about.

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 09:47:03PM 1 point [-]

In non-Toastmasters settings, these skills have been useful when I’m trying to talk to people who have different interests, or when I’m put on the spot to talk about something I feel like I don’t know a lot about.

This sounds like you became more sociable. Now I'm curious how would a sociable person be like to you? I mean... what is the line that separates the sociable from not sociable in your perspective?

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2014 05:12:30PM 0 points [-]

The truth I was referring in the previous comment is Scientific understanding.

I don't understand what these words mean to you.

Something like a reimagining of what life could be for the human race and the commitment to implement that vision as expressed by the people telling the story and living the story.

I still don't understand. What does "fidelity to the truth" mean in the context of ideology? Science doesn't tell you what your values should be.

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 09:42:27PM -3 points [-]

What does "fidelity to the truth" mean in the context of ideology?

Think about a SF movie like Gravity, fidelity to truth is making sure the details are coherent with the way reality works, with the way we currently understand reality to work.

Science doesn't tell you what your values should be.

In a certain regard this is true. Science doesn't tell you if you should be a sociopath of a pro-social person. However, once the pro-social stance has been selected, science can point at what values have a track record of providing this pro-social outcome. Cooperation, compassion, forgiveness... this have documented outcomes. There are scientific studies regarding what is conducive to happiness and meaning. There is the whole field of eudaimonia studies that is clearly pointing towards specific values. It doesn't tell you how to prioritise them but it sure points at what they should be.

Greed, altho a value to some... is not something that has pro-social outcomes (not to my knowledge).

Comment author: RichardKennaway 03 March 2014 08:50:21PM 1 point [-]

Also, I lived my entire childhood in such a totalitarian state. I am aware of how bad state involvement in these matters can be.

Which makes it all the stranger that you propose, without seeming to have given it any thought, a totalitarian state that will somehow just work. Can you imagine no other way the world could work than as a totalitarian state somewhere on a spectrum of bad to good?

Which one, by the way?

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 09:26:40PM -1 points [-]

I haven't proposed a totalitarian state. This is something that you inferred from what I've wrote.

I was talking about a society with certain characteristics.

I was thinking more about a StarTrek kind of thing than an old soviet republic.

One practical, slow way in which I see this happening is by shifting the focus on cooperation in education and slowly limiting the massive accumulation of wealth together with strong regulations regarding ecological impact and labour compensation.

One very fine idea I found was in a Howard Gardner interview for BigThink (scroll down to " What is the US getting wrong?" )

Another interesting approach was an initiative called 1:12 proposed in Switzerland. Unfortunately, that initiative got hit massively with FUD from the competition which was able to outspend it in terms of advertising 40:1.

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