Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2014 09:56:34PM 2 points [-]

fidelity to truth is making sure the details are coherent with the way reality works

So, a simpler word would be "realistic".

Science doesn't tell you if you should be a sociopath of a pro-social person.

That's an interesting choice of values.

science can point at what values have a track record of providing this pro-social outcome. Cooperation, compassion, forgiveness... this have documented outcomes.

Links?

Greed, altho a value to some... is not something that has pro-social outcomes (not to my knowledge)

Then the success of capitalism must be a complete mystery to you.

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 10:28:18PM -2 points [-]

Links?

Start here:

http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/

Then the success of capitalism must be a complete mystery to you.

Wouldn't be more useful to just provide a valid counter example instead of mocking me?

Comment author: Eloise 03 March 2014 05:54:37PM 9 points [-]

There are several confounding factors so it’s hard to know for sure, but I do think that Toastmasters has helped me improve at a specific sort of social interaction: having to talk when I don’t know a lot about a particular topic or when my thoughts aren’t well prepared. I’ve gotten a lot of practice at this with an exercise Toastmasters calls “Table Topics”. During Table Topics, each person goes up to the front, is given a prompt, and then gives a 1-2 minute impromptu speech on the given topic. Table topics force you to talk for at least one minute about topics you sometimes have no interest in or think you know nothing about, which has helped me develop some useful skills:

  1. I usually know more about things than I think I do, and quickly accessing this buried information is something I’ve gotten better at. I think I know almost nothing about football, but if I actually take some time to think about it, that’s not true. I have a vague understanding of the rules, and know about brackets and betting, and know some things about head injuries. I can talk about these things.

  2. I’ve gotten much better at taking a topic I’ve been given and transitioning to a related but more comfortable subject. I might be uncomfortable talking about the Superbowl for a minute, but I could transition to instead talking about other athletic competitions I know a lot about, like marathons and ultramarathons.

In non-Toastmasters settings, these skills have been useful when I’m trying to talk to people who have different interests, or when I’m put on the spot to talk about something I feel like I don’t know a lot about.

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 09:47:03PM 1 point [-]

In non-Toastmasters settings, these skills have been useful when I’m trying to talk to people who have different interests, or when I’m put on the spot to talk about something I feel like I don’t know a lot about.

This sounds like you became more sociable. Now I'm curious how would a sociable person be like to you? I mean... what is the line that separates the sociable from not sociable in your perspective?

Comment author: Lumifer 03 March 2014 04:25:42PM *  1 point [-]

I think a fidelity to the truth will make the story rational.

What do you call "the truth" in the context of a fictional story?

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 04:45:22PM -1 points [-]

The truth I was referring in the previous comment is Scientific understanding.

Also, when I said story I did not meant a work of fiction but more like an work of vision.

Something like a reimagining of what life could be for the human race and the commitment to implement that vision as expressed by the people telling the story and living the story.

Comment author: ChristianKl 03 March 2014 04:07:08PM 1 point [-]

Could you provide a summary of the idea?

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 04:22:31PM 6 points [-]

Robert Kegan's wikipedia entry has a pretty good summary of the idea.

This 15 min. youtube video is also a nice introduction.

In short, the real reason people don't do the things they consciously want to do might be related to a sort of immune system that tries to keep things as they are because there are competing commitments that steam from unconscious assumptions. e.g. a person might not take their heart medication because taking medication is associated with end of life and they have a competing commitment to not perceive themselves as being at the end of their life.

Akrasia and Immunity to change

5 terasinube 03 March 2014 04:04PM

Does any of you has any relevant experience that you can share with Immunity to change by Robert Kegan and Lisa Laskow Lahey?

I'm currently reading their book and I find it fascinating.

Here is a HBR article titled The Real Reason People Won’t Change that describes the work. 
Comment author: Vika 03 March 2014 03:06:18AM 1 point [-]

You seem to have a not-good-enough meta-identity. A problem with this one is that even when you generate counterexamples, it can declare the counterexamples not to be good enough. E.g. "sure, I learned a new tango move today, but I could have done it faster!". How does the "fifth order of consciousness" approach work?

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 07:28:43AM 2 points [-]

Yeah, the Insufficient mindset is a very limiting identity. The tango experience was more like... "X months have passed and I'm still not able to compose a dance with the moves I know" morphing into "I can compose but it's too linear" morphing into "I can compose but I have a lot of decision points" morphing into "to hell with good enough. what is important is to have fun" and ending up with me dancing in a tango flash mob in a subway station. :)

How does the "fifth order of consciousness" approach work?

Everyone needs a philosophy of life, a way of being into this world. Mine is one inspired by the way Tolstoy interpreted the teachings of Jesus. In short, morality is redefined as the continuous movement towards an ideal of perfection with the full understanding that you will never be able to reach it. My perfection ideal is the ideal of the Jedi. It has 3 components: emotional regulation (Emotions, yet Peace), rationality (Ignorance, yet Understanding) and noosphere contribution (Death, yet The Force). The Kegan's 5 order of consciousness mind involves all three and it is thus perceived as a valid guideline for my journey. The main advantage being the fact that there is a progression (there are signposts available, e.g. 4th order consciousness).

Comment author: Creutzer 03 March 2014 02:04:00AM *  2 points [-]

What good is it to say something that is not what I want to say? I don't get utility from saying arbitrary things. What if someone asks me a question and I know the answer but can't express it in the language? This kind of thing drives me crazy. I wouldn't care if I botched a few verb endings if I could at least have a remotely meaningful conversation in a language. ("Hello, my name is X, nice to meet you" does not qualify.)

Comment author: terasinube 03 March 2014 07:09:18AM 1 point [-]

In my perspective this would be deliberate practice. You would get to practice sentence construction and you would get to practice your sound creation which is quite a difficult thing to do.

Starting from simple things like asking for direction or requesting stuff is a great place to start.

You can't expect fluency from the very beginning but, in order to get there, you'd have to start from somewhere.

If this kind of sentences drive you crazy... it's ok... choose something else. I'm in no way trying to tell you what to do. :) I'm only providing my perspective on things. If it's useful... ok, if not.... still ok. :)

Comment author: Eitan_Zohar 02 March 2014 06:55:57PM *  0 points [-]

Is there an online transliterator or something? I don't know Japanese.

I can coherently ask my aunt if there's water in the fridge. Or tell someone that they're a son of a whore. That's about as far as it goes.

Comment author: terasinube 02 March 2014 09:02:49PM 1 point [-]

It's just a simple "hello, my name is X, nice to meet you" kind of greeting. All languages have them. They might sound silly for a native speaker but also endearing. They warm the atmosphere.

What would be a simple phrase that you would like to learn?

Asking this question 2 times and adding the answers to the "water in the fridge" & "son of a whore" would effectively double your skill. :)

Comment author: Creutzer 02 March 2014 06:24:40PM 0 points [-]

From my personal experience, biggest hurdle in learning a new language is actually using it. Getting past the "shame" filter of your brain. If you accept that mistakes are unavoidable and just start speaking, you will get a lot of practice and you will improve.

I disagree. Nevermind mere mistakes. The biggest hurdle is "I can't fucking say what I want to say". Not "say without mistakes" - "say at all".

Comment author: terasinube 02 March 2014 06:47:41PM *  1 point [-]

Of course you cannot say what you want to say, but maybe you are able to say something else.

You might not be able to express some complex idea from the get go but, would it be that difficult to say: konnichiwa, watashi wa Creutzer desu. Hajimemashite. ? :)

Comment author: terasinube 02 March 2014 06:40:01PM 0 points [-]

There is an "insufficient" mindset that's my biggest obstacle. Like, insufficiently smart to ask questions, insufficiently creative to contribute, insufficiently good tango dancer, etc. Work by Brene Brown on vulnerability has helped me a lot with this.

The identity that helps me most is: I'm a fifth order of consciousness in the making (I just levelled up to 4). :)

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