Comment author: Lukas_Gloor 28 July 2013 09:12:15PM 14 points [-]

How certain are you that there is such a qualitative difference, and that you want to care about it? If there is some empirical (or perhaps also normative) uncertainty, shouldn't you at least attribute some amount of concern for sentient beings that lack self-awareness?

Comment author: thebestwecan 11 June 2014 12:54:38AM 0 points [-]

I second this. Really not sure what justifies such confidence.

Comment author: thebestwecan 16 May 2014 04:14:05PM *  0 points [-]

I disagree with the article for the following reason: if I have two hypotheses that both explain an "absence of evidence" occurrence equally well, then that occurrence does not give me reason to favor either hypothesis and is not "evidence of absence."

Example: Vibrams are a brand of toe-shoes that recently settled a big suit because they couldn't justify their claims of health benefits. We have two hypotheses (1) Vibrams work, (2) Vibrams don't work. Now, if a well-executed experiment had been done and failed to show an effect, that would be evidence against a significant benefit from Vibrams. However, if the effect were small or nobody had completed a well-executed experiment, I see no reason that (2) would fit the evidence better than (1), so we are justified in saying this absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

Although the original saying, I think, was meant in the absolute sense (evidence meaning proof), it is still fitting in the probabilistic sense. Absence of evidence is only evidence of absence when combined with one hypothesis explaining an occurrence better than the other, so the saying holds.

Comment author: tog 06 May 2014 11:40:58PM *  0 points [-]

If I could ask two quick questions, it'd be whether you're a realist and whether you're a cognitivist. The preponderance of those views within EA is what I've heard debated most often. (This is different from what first made me ask, but I'll drop that.)

I know Jacy Anthis - thebestwecan on LessWrong - has an argument that realism combined with the moral beliefs about future generations typical among EAs suggests that smarter people in the future will work out a more correct ethics, and that this should significantly affect our actions now. He rejects realism, and think this is a bad consequence. I think it actually doesn't depend on realism, but rather on most forms of cognitivism, for instance ones on which our coherent extrapolated view is correct. He plans to write about this.

Comment author: thebestwecan 07 May 2014 12:05:43AM *  0 points [-]

I believe the prevalence of moral realism within EA is risky and bad for EA goals for several reasons. One of which is that moral realists tend to believe in the inevitability of a positive far-future (since smart minds will converge on the "right" morality), which tends to make them focus on ensuring the existence of the far future at the cost of other things.

If smart minds will converge on the "right" morality, this makes sense, but I severely doubt that is true. It could be true, but that possibility certainly isn't worth sacrificing other goals of improvement.

And I think trying to figure out the "right" morality is a waste of resources for similar reasons. CEA has expressed the views I argue against here, which has other EAs and me concerned.

Comment author: Drayin 03 May 2014 07:27:15PM 5 points [-]

lukeprog (Luke Muehlhauser) objects to CEA's claim that EA grew primarily out of Giving What We Can at http://www.effectivealtruism.org/#comments :

This was a pretty surprising sentence. Weren’t LessWrong & GiveWell growing large, important parts of the community before GWWC existed? It wasn’t called “effective altruism” at the time, but it was largely the same ideas and people.

Comment author: thebestwecan 06 May 2014 11:49:17PM 6 points [-]

I agree with Luke here. CEA seems to often overstate its role in the EA movement (another example at http://centreforeffectivealtruism.org/).

Comment author: tog 02 May 2014 09:00:43PM *  1 point [-]

[confused comment, ignore]

Comment author: thebestwecan 06 May 2014 11:46:59PM 5 points [-]

Uh, I contacted him. Tom, this is on the survey planning document :P

Comment author: peter_hurford 02 May 2014 04:59:10PM 3 points [-]
Comment author: thebestwecan 02 May 2014 06:56:31PM 1 point [-]

Great!

Comment author: Lumifer 02 May 2014 04:32:49PM 6 points [-]

For people who are not EAs, a lot of questions make little sense.

Comment author: thebestwecan 02 May 2014 06:55:59PM 2 points [-]

Yes. Many non-EA results will include lots of "unsure/unfamiliar with the options" responses.

Comment author: KnaveOfAllTrades 02 May 2014 05:09:14PM 1 point [-]

Was it definitely Peter Singer?

Comment author: thebestwecan 02 May 2014 06:54:42PM *  4 points [-]

Yes, I contacted him personally to fill it out. We used personal contacts as much as possible to avoid biased sampling (as many EAs don't frequent online forums like LW and Facebook).

Comment author: SaidAchmiz 02 May 2014 05:13:51PM 10 points [-]

I've now checked out the survey, and have a couple of comments (which I put into the comments field and am reposting here). #1 is important, #2 less so:

  1. On moral philosophy: "Consequentialist/utilitarian" should be broken up into something like "Utilitarian" and "Other consequentialist (not utilitarian)", because I am a consequentialist and (probably) not a utilitarian, and that disagreement is one of my main points of contention with the EA movement.

  2. I had no idea how to answer the "political views" question. Are these positions ("left", "centre", etc.) supposed to be on the American (U.S.) political spectrum? That'd be my default assumption, but the British/Canadian spelling suggests otherwise... in any case, at least offer as many options as e.g. the Lesswrong survey did.

Comment author: thebestwecan 02 May 2014 06:53:26PM 0 points [-]

I think it'd be interesting to know more about the specific ethical views of ethically-minded EAs, but the majority of EAs are not well-versed enough to make Utilitarianism vs. Other Consequentialism distinctions. It's good to make a big survey like this as easy to fill out as possible.

Same thing about the "political views" point, although there are standards for left vs. right across countries: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left%E2%80%93right_politics

Comment author: tog 01 May 2014 04:53:21PM 4 points [-]

Are you sure it was used beforehand Jacy? Are there instances you can remember?

Comment author: thebestwecan 01 May 2014 05:36:01PM *  4 points [-]

It was used in the Felicifia community, although it wasn't used as definitively as it is now. Although 'strategic altruism' was more common although that wasn't as catchy. It was also just used in casual conversation.

I could be wrong though.

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