In response to comment by turchin on Seven Apocalypses
Comment author: scarcegreengrass 21 September 2016 01:59:09PM 1 point [-]

These are very interesting, particularly the Values Apocalypse. I'd be curious to draw up a longer and more detailed spectrum. I limited this one to seven to keep it low-resolution and memorable.

Comment author: turchin 21 September 2016 02:16:17PM 0 points [-]

Did you see my map Typology of x-risks? http://lesswrong.com/lw/mdw/a_map_typology_of_human_extinction_risks/ I am interested in creating maps which will cover all topics about x-risks.

In response to Seven Apocalypses
Comment author: turchin 20 September 2016 08:30:24PM *  2 points [-]

We could add here "Qualia apocalypses" - human are alive but become p-zombies may be after wrong uploading

Intelligence apocalypses - human go extinct, but no other form of intelligence appear. Or human survive but their creative intelligence permanently damaged and IQ never rise above 80. May be because global contamination by arsenic.

Gene allele apocalypses - many interesting alleles in human genom disappear. The remains look like humans but many interesting traits are lost.

Primate apocalypses - all high apes extinct including humans, new intelligence on Earth could appear only after 10 million years from now or more.

Mammal apocalypses.

Vertebral apocalypses

Values apocalypses - human values eroded and replaced by another values, like Nazi. Probably it has happened several times in history.

Evolution apocalypses - evolution just ends, human exists almost forever, but nothing new happens, no superAI, no star travel. Just the end of complexity growth. AI may appear but will be as boring as Windows 7.

Individuality apocalypses - humans become all very similar to each other. It already happened with globalisation.

Children apocalypses - human just stop to reproduce above replacement rate.

Art apocalypses - human lost interest to arts or ability to create really interesting art. Some think that it has already happened.

Wire-geading-euporium-superdrug apocalypses. New ways of the brain stimulation completely distract humans from real life. ̶T̶h̶e̶y ̶s̶p̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶a̶l̶l̶ ̶t̶i̶m̶e̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶F̶B̶

Wrong upgrade apocalypses - human basic drives are edited on birth so they are not aggressive, but they also lose interest to space exploration (S.Lem novel about it).

Comment author: turchin 19 September 2016 11:32:28PM 2 points [-]

Farmers are nursing small pigs like their children, but later kill them and eat them. It may be unpredictable for pigs.

A spy who works like an ordinary person, but sometimes stole information.

Comment author: DataPacRat 19 September 2016 06:35:24PM 10 points [-]

As a cryonicist, I'm drafting out a text describing my revival preferences and requests, to be stored along with my other paperwork. (Oddly enough, this isn't a standard practice.) The current draft is here. I'm currently seeking suggestions for improvement, and a lot of the people around here seem to have good heads on their shoulders, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

Comment author: turchin 19 September 2016 11:28:26PM 2 points [-]

I would add lines about would you prefer to be revived together with your friends, family members, before them or after.

May be I would add a secret question to check if you are restored properly.

I would also add all my digital immortality back-up information, which could be used to fill gaps in case if some information is lost.

I also expect that revival may happen in maybe 20-30 years from my death so I should add some kind of will about how to manage my property during my absence.

Comment author: DataPacRat 19 September 2016 06:35:24PM 10 points [-]

As a cryonicist, I'm drafting out a text describing my revival preferences and requests, to be stored along with my other paperwork. (Oddly enough, this isn't a standard practice.) The current draft is here. I'm currently seeking suggestions for improvement, and a lot of the people around here seem to have good heads on their shoulders, so I thought I'd ask for comments here. Any thoughts?

Comment author: turchin 19 September 2016 11:23:14PM 5 points [-]

These two lines seem to me contradictory. It is not clear to me should I upload you or preserve your brain.

  • I don't understand how the cells of the brain produce qualia and consciousness, and have a certain concern that an attempt at uploading my mind into digital form may lose important parts of my self. If you haven't solved those fundamental problems of how brains produce minds, I would prefer to be revived as a biological, living being, rather than have my mind uploaded into software form.

  • I understand that all choices contain risk. However, I believe that the "information" theory of identity is a more useful guide than theories of identity which tie selfhood to a physical brain. I also suspect that there will be certain advantages to be one of the first minds turned into software, and certain disadvantages. In order to try to gain those advantages, and minimize those disadvantages, I am willing to volunteer to let my cryonically-preserved brain be used for experimental mind-uploading procedures, provided that certain preconditions are met, including:

Comment author: Jude_B 19 September 2016 03:42:53PM 0 points [-]

I think we need to get clearer on what "why," "something" and "exists" mean.

For example, if you assume that numbers "exist", that is, you are willing to attach the descriptor "exist" to numbers, then you already have your answer: "Because numbers exist necessarily!"

Voila! End of story! Move over, folks, nothing(...) to see here.

Still, if you think that numbers are "something" and that they "exist," then it still doesn't answer why THE PHYSICAL world exists, or consciousness. I guess that now you can follow Tegmark's footsteps and say that everything is mathematics, and that's it. (But maybe there is a separate answer?)

So now (for Platonists) the "why" question is not why something exists, it is how to prove physical existence from the necessary existence of numbers or mathematical structures.

So like I said, before one tries to answer this question one first has to give some working definition as to what "why," "something" and "exists" mean.

Comment author: turchin 19 September 2016 11:09:45PM 0 points [-]

I think that "why" here represents our surprise about why Null hypothesis (nothing exists at all in Parfit words) is not true. "Why" is about missing part of knowledge and about feeling that something wrong with our model of the world. Why is also connected here with "how" question, as it should provide us with "Theory in everything", which explains, how exactly primordial nothingness evolved in observable set of physical laws.

I also think that "exist" and "something" is almost the same idea. "Something" can't be without "exist" and vica verse.

So the most problematic in your question is what is "existence". And if we will able to find the nature of existence we also will be able to find why something exist, it is almost two sides of one question.

One of the most consistent ways to define "existence" is to connect it with experience: If something exists, it is in my experience, or it could influence my experiences.

But in this case we postulate some form of observer as an axiom. I think that many rationalists may not like it. In this case all we have is only some hallucinations of primordial observer. This theory may be self consistent, but it seems that it doesn't coreleate with observable set of physical laws.

Another way to define "existence" is try replace it with idea of logical consequences. If A is true, than A exists. This definition help us to get rid of mystics of primordial observer, and also logically create mathematical universe.

What is your opinion about correct definition of "existence"?

Comment author: scarcegreengrass 19 September 2016 06:13:10PM 1 point [-]

turchin, i just want to say that i really like these idea-catalog infographics.

Comment author: turchin 19 September 2016 10:44:51PM 1 point [-]

Thanks! Acknowledgement is very motivating for me to make more maps, and there are several really interesting in pipeline. Hope to publish the map of natural global risks soon.

Comment author: g_pepper 15 September 2016 05:43:19PM 1 point [-]

I meant that Internet knows about its own existence in form of scientific research which studies Internet and is published in the Internet. It is also self-aware by the mind of people who use it, nothing mystical here.

I suspect that this idea of self awareness differs considerably from what most people think of by self awareness. For example, your criteria would seem to classify the following things as self-aware:

  1. A printed edition of the Encyclopaedia Britannica, if that edition contains an article about the Encyclopaedia Britannica.
  2. A corporate IT department's Asset Management System (which is a computer-based repository of information about applications that the department manages), if it contains information about the Asset Management System.
  3. Any literary work which refers to itself (e.g. John Gay's The Beggar's Opera, in which two of the characters discuss the opera itself at various points in the opera, or Denis Diderot's novel Jacques The Fatalist and His Master, which contains numerous asides in which the narrator discusses Diderot's novel).

Do you consider those things to be self aware?

Comment author: turchin 15 September 2016 09:51:30PM 1 point [-]

Self-aware is about agent which has its own model and able to construct it. Wiki said: "Self-awareness is the capacity for introspection and the ability to recognize oneself as an individual separate from the environment and other individuals." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-awareness

Britannica's printed edition is not agent, but its authors were agents and they knew that they were writing an encyclopaedia and that they are its authors.

Internet include agents which thinks about internet and plan its development.

But evolution (until human appeared) didn't include or needed any idea about evolution and nicely worked without it.

What is your understanding of the idea of "self-awareness"?

Comment author: g_pepper 15 September 2016 04:04:29PM 1 point [-]

Interesting list, thanks for posting it.

One question: You describe a quantum computer as "hypothetically more powerful than total calculation power of the universe". What does that mean?

On the one hand, even a deterministic Turing machine is hypothetically more powerful than the total calculation power of the universe, since a hypothetical Turing machine has an infinite tape. So your statement would appear to be trivially true (because you said "hypothetical").

On the other hand, it seems that no actual quantum computer can be more powerful than the total calculation power of the universe, since any actual quantum computer that we were to build would be part of the universe.

So, what does this statement really say regarding the power of a quantum computer?

Comment author: turchin 15 September 2016 04:40:19PM 1 point [-]

My statement mostly repeat the claim which I read somewhere that computational power of QC of several thousand qubits will be stronger then computational power of classical computer in the size of all Universe.

I can't find the link now, but maybe will find it later.

Comment author: g_pepper 15 September 2016 04:17:55PM 0 points [-]

You say of the Internet (search engines, database engines, exchange media, distributed calculations) that it is "self-aware". That seems like a strong claim to make with no further explanation. How did you arrive at that conclusion?

Comment author: turchin 15 September 2016 04:32:12PM *  1 point [-]

I meant that Internet knows about its own existence in form of scientific research which studies Internet and is published in the Internet. It is also self-aware by the mind of people who use it, nothing mystical here.

I think that idea of "consciousness" should be broken in several separate ideas:

  1. Self-aware - something simply including model of itself.

  2. Have qualia - ability to have own qualitative subjective experiences

  3. Field of consciousness - united perception field which integrate different modalities in one group of things actual now. (For example mainstream mass media play such role for civilization, but they don't have their own qualia).

View more: Prev | Next