In response to In Praise of Boredom
Comment author: Robin_Hanson2 18 January 2009 12:57:33PM 23 points [-]

Are you sure this isn't the Eliezer concept of boring, instead of the human concept? There seem to be quite a few humans who are happy to keep winning using the same approach day after day year after year. They keep getting paid well, getting social status, money, sex, etc. To the extent they want novelty it is because such novelty is a sign of social status - a new car every year, a new girl every month, a promotion every two years, etc. It is not because they expect or want to learn something from it.

Comment author: waveman 17 July 2016 01:38:25AM 0 points [-]

sex

Maybe for some people more shallow forms of novelty suffice e.g. sex with new women.

In response to In Praise of Boredom
Comment author: waveman 17 July 2016 01:37:20AM 0 points [-]

EY: (Do human beings get less easily bored as we grow older, more tolerant of repetition, because any further discoveries are less valuable, because we have less time left to exploit them?)

Anonymous: For a 3 year old, every day is like your first day in Paris.

Sample of one but my personal experience in my seventh decade is that is just gets damn hard to find interesting new hings, especially easily accessible interesting new things.

My tolerance of boredom actually seems far lower than it used to be but I have to work a lot harder to access good new stuff.

Comment author: waveman 16 July 2016 03:56:36AM 0 points [-]

Another book that makes Einstein seem almost human "General relativity conflict and rivalries : Einstein's polemics with physicists" / by Galina Weinstein.

E.g., the sign error in an algebraic calculation that cost 2 years! Very interesting read.

Comment author: Eliezer_Yudkowsky 04 August 2007 04:43:56AM 65 points [-]

1) Because they'll say with their lips, "Oh, well, I just want the true essence" and then go on denying homosexuals the right to marry because it's the word of God.

2) What's left, exactly?

3) Nazism would have been unexceptional if it had been an ancient religion instead of a modern government. Why can't modern Nazis disavow ancient Nazi practice in favor of some true essence that makes sense in modern terms?

4) Why not start your search for the true essence in Lord of the Rings, which dominates the Bible both ethically and aesthetically? Or Harry Potter? Or Oh My Goddess?

And above all,

5) Because it's a fantastically elaborate way of refusing to admit you were wrong.

Comment author: waveman 03 July 2016 01:19:42AM 0 points [-]

3) Nazism would have been unexceptional if it had been an ancient religion instead of a modern government. Why can't modern Nazis disavow ancient Nazi practice in favor of some true essence that makes sense in modern terms?

Just highlighting this point.

Comment author: J_Thomas2 26 July 2008 03:33:47PM 0 points [-]

Lara Foster, consider the possibility that Obama's assassination would be a boon to progressivism, as JFK's death was.

Where is your evidence that JFK's death helped "progressivism"?

How do you know what would have happened to progressivism if JFK had died considerably later?

Isn't this an example of the fallacy we're talking about?

Comment author: waveman 29 June 2016 10:58:33PM 0 points [-]

I think the idea here is likely that JFK was not very effective in getting his legislation through congress. When Johnson took over, he ran with the same agenda more or less, but he was much more effective in getting laws through congress.

Comment author: robin_brandt2 17 July 2008 09:56:54AM 1 point [-]

There is an argument from David Deutsch about the beauty of flowers. It is available here http://www.qubit.org/people/david/index.php?path=Video/Why%20Are%20Flowers%20Beautiful

Although I do not agree with everything he says in that talk. I think he may be right in that one reason both bees and humans find flowers attractive is that there was a huge genetic gap between bees and flowers, and so the shortest way of signaling between the species was to use a more universal standard, a standard that seems to be embedded in the very nature of intelligence(at least in part of mindspace) and therefore also appealing to human general intelligence, I think it has something to do with simplicity and complexity, minimal description length and symmetry and is definitively calibrated by the our laws of physics, cosmological constants, and environment on earth. Of course from an outside viewpoint this standard is not special or any more valuable that any other, but it may have a certain absolute quality to it that may appear in most intelligences at least i this universe, it may not be completely arbitrary, there may even be parts wich would evolve in any intelligence anywhere in the MUH.

Comment author: waveman 29 June 2016 01:16:03AM *  1 point [-]

This doesn't address the visual beauty of flowers as such but, worth noting: flowers often emit chemicals that mimic the smell of sex hormones and their metabolites. Sex hormones are quite similar across the animal kingdom. This is part of why we like flowers and use them in perfumes. Other species do similar things eg truffles.

So the appeal to humans could, in the case of truffles, be a side-effect of an attempt by the fungus's to get pigs to dig them up and spread the spores.

A fascinating book on this topic "The Scented Ape" https://www.amazon.com/Scented-Ape-Biology-Individual-Development/dp/0521395615/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1467162838&sr=8-1&keywords=scented+ape also it is interesting to read a few books about how perfumes are made.

Comment author: waveman 29 June 2016 01:05:10AM *  1 point [-]

And Mohandas Gandhi, who really did turn the other cheek? Those who try to serve all humanity, whether or not all humanity serves them in turn?

This prompts me to propose a new heuristic: treat any claims of great and improbable virtue with great skepticism.

In Saul Alinksky's telling (in "Rules for Radicals"), Gandhi adopted nonviolence because it was the best option he had. The Indians had no guns and no way to get them. Gandhi also complained about the passivity of Indians. He turned these weaknesses into strengths. Passive sit-in's and passive resistance to shame the British into doing the right thing.

Later, when the Indians were in charge and had guns they invaded Kashmir. Nehru expected Gandhi to condemn the resort to violence but he stayed silent.

Another example of an allegedly highly virtuous person who deservces close scrutiny is Mother Theresa. But I suspect this is so well known I will not rehearse the details (a search for Christopher Hittchens Mother Theresa should get you there).

Comment author: michael_vassar3 16 July 2008 12:07:01PM 5 points [-]

A possibility that I have mentioned here before has to do with positive feedback loops in an isolated society between economic growth and luxury spending on moral coherence. On this account, people always had qualms about slavery but considered it to impractical to seriously consider abandoning it. When feeling rich they abandoned it anyway, either as conspicuous consumption or as luxury spending on simplicity. Having done so, it turned out, made them richer, affirming this sort of apparent luxury spending or conspicuous consumption as actually being moral progress. Viewing them as an ecosystem of godshatter, increased power destabilized the balance of power between dissonant utility functions, allowing certain elements to largely erase others while still further increasing in power. One problem with this story is that it passes some of the buck to economic growth, though only some, as access to resources and population are surely part of the answer there. Another problem is that it doesn't add up to normality, but proposed moralities should only add up to normality when approximated crudely, not when approximated precisely.

Comment author: waveman 28 June 2016 09:58:57AM 0 points [-]

positive feedback loops in an isolated society between economic growth and luxury spending on moral coherence

Or as Saul Alinsky put it “[C]oncern with ethics increases with the number of means available and vice versa.” It is easy to be ethical when you have little at stake.

Comment author: Lowly_Undergrad2 16 July 2008 06:28:39AM 1 point [-]

I don't think anyone can really argue that a large-scale decrease in global violence and violent death is a sign of moral progress. So I must point to this Steven Pinker conference where he lays out some statistics showing the gradual decline of violence and violent death throughout our history: http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/steven_pinker_on_the_myth_of_violence.html

Comment author: waveman 28 June 2016 09:54:07AM 0 points [-]

This has actually been trenchantly criticized on statistical grounds. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Better_Angels_of_Our_Nature

The basic idea is that if the Cuban Missile Crisis(or numerous other similar events) had ended badly the conclusion would have been reversed. And according to people who were there, such as President John F Kennedy, it very well could have ended badly.

In response to The Moral Void
Comment author: waveman 27 June 2016 04:36:39AM 1 point [-]

Link to "virtue which is nameless" is broken. Probably should be http://www.yudkowsky.net/rational/virtues/

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