All of aletheianink's Comments + Replies

I was going to reply to your direct examples, but an overarching response seems more appropriate.

I am not saying we should not medicate, as you seem to think. As a long-term psychiatric patient and the wife to another, I have seen the enormous benefits medication for depression can bring. I am saying that our understanding of this condition is relatively basic in regards to its complexity. A hole in the leg, or pain, do not need to be complexly understood to be dealth with sufficiently - pain medication hides the pain, that is the goal, and a suitable pain... (read more)

I think that the tricky thing is that a psychiatrist has to put statistics into perspective on two sides of the equation - both in regards to the medication, and then in regards to the diagnosis/presentation of the patient. In a nutshell, we diagnose patients based on their behaviour, not their brain chemistry and function, while we are using medication to treat their brain chemistry and function. We are not treating something that, in most cases, a doctor can see or quantify absolutely (in most instances doctors are not doing brain scans in order to medic... (read more)

1hyporational
Substitute depression with pain or fatigue for example. We can't directly measure these either, so what's the crucial difference? We diagnose high blood pressure by measuring the patient's blood pressure, not the relevant biochemistry we're going to treat with blood pressure medication. Do you see a similar problem with that? Evidence, please, not random blog articles. Side effects are common, nobody's going to deny that. Non-temporary worsening of symptoms doesn't sound like a common side effect. Like with any medication, some cost-benefit analysis has to be done. Pretty much all medications have side effects. In what kinds of situations do side effects start to indicate lack of reason? We arguably don't really understand pain extremely well either. We know how to treat it however. Is there any reason why we shouldn't? That's a common strawman. There are a variety of hypotheses these days and some simplistic serotonin imbalance isn't one of them. One of the reasons this simplistic hypothesis doesn't work is that the medications work with a delay, although they immediately raise serotonin levels in the relevant synapses. I'm pretty sure this has been known about as long as these kinds of medications have existed. There's a lot of diseases we don't understand but know how to treat, most of them not psychiatric. Lack of complete understanding is a poor reason to deny treatment from people. The understanding is probably a lot less vague than you think, and vagueness of understanding isn't a sufficient reason not to treat a condition if the treatment is known to work like in this case. Most medical conditions are vague compared to a hole in the leg, so that juxtaposition doesn't illustrate much.

That was beautiful!

I've read quite a few of the articles here, and something that seems commonly mentioned but never really acted upon is the idea of the rationality dojo. I understand that a key point in Eliezer's opinion is the in-person element, but looking at meetups it also seems like there are a lot more people talking on the forums than there are actually getting together in person.

Pattrismo wrote an excellent article on how LW is shiny distraction, but it seems like little hard action came of this. Has anyone discussed the idea of creating an online dojo, with speci... (read more)

I don't have the technical skills to do this, but I would suggest something like this:

  1. Find sources where you would find things of interest to you, if they were happening now.
  2. Create a tool (or script or something) to scrape their "events" page at regular intervals and then sorts that data, searching for keywords
  3. Have it then notify you in some context when something you like is mentioned.

This isn't foolproof (for example, it might say "Band X is the next Beatles!" if you've chosen Beatles ... but then you might find something you li... (read more)

I wish I lived in Leipzig! And probably also spoke German. This sounds awesome!

I agree. I think most people just want to talk at you, not with you, when they're determined to win, and very few people would ever follow a conversation the way Socrates' opponents do in Plato's works.

I think this happens because it takes skill to accept being wrong. I know this has essentially been mentioned on LW before (my most recent reading was in MrMind's comment on the 5 Second Level), but I don't think most people have learnt that skill.

What we learn is that if we say "yes, I was wrong", others have then jumped on us, made fun of us or made an example of us - this starts when we're kids, or in school, where if we happen to be around teachers or parents with an inferiority complex, we've quickly learnt that it's better to be absolutely... (read more)

7Ishaan
Had an interesting experience once - I have a reputation among friends for refusing to concede anything in arguments. I was debating something with a friend, and she said something I hadn't considered, to which I responded: "Oh, really? Okay, I change my mind." Her response?: "Wow...that wasn't nearly as satisfying as I thought it would be." Felt good. /bragging Moral of the story: The "winning-losing" social dynamic of admitting you were wrong is subverted if the other person perceives that you were not emotionally invested in your opinion...which is signaled by changing your mind quickly after the mind-changing argument or information is presented, and giving positive affect cues upon mind-change (similar to what you'd give after seeing the solution to a math problem).
1hyporational
Admitting you're wrong is not necessary for changing your mind. I think they're two different skills. Upvoted for the first two thirds.

I don't know if this helps, but I felt the same way, and took the Mensa entrance test to find out my IQ. Turns out that they don't actually give you the results, just tell you if you've entered ... and at the moment, that's satisfied my desire to know without feeling unhappy it's not high enough.

I live in Australia and took the entrance to Mensa IQ test. I was accepted but not given a number, and was told to contact the evaluating psychologist (even though I wasn't sure how to find that out). That may be a way to do things, but since I never followed through I don't know how hard it is to get the results like that. I just put the lower bound for Mensa entrance because I know I at least got that, and mentioned it in the comments so they can discount it if it's not very useful.

Women's clothes are generally terrible in most regards except, and it is less and less common, to look good. They are designed to look good on very thin women, and maintain a thin line. Most high fashion is just ridiculous, and when it gets passed down it seems most designers have an "idea" of a woman which is far removed from reality. Pockets rarely feature except in jeans, and I have had more than one item of clothing which looked to have pockets, but they were actually fake and rather pointless on all counts.

Men's clothing is far, far better (often even in appearance), in my opinion.

0[anonymous]
Well, women also get to carry around large bags / purses without feeling self-conscious. I often wish I could get away with carrying around a purse for my things. It'd be nice to have them all in one place and not scattered among a half dozen pockets and liable to fall out when I reach for something else. The manly alternative of a backpack or satchel / messenger bag is typically overkill and not appropriate to all situations.

Thank you for the clarification - I'm from Australia, and if I'd guessed I would have assumed a pocketbook was just a fancy notebook (like a moleskine or something).

I really like this. I have a handbag and do something akin to this with ziplock bags, but having things colour-coded seems to be an additionally good idea.

If you have a new habit that's not time-specific and doesn't take too long, try to do it first thing in the morning. It will not only get done (and be harder to forget), but the feeling of accomplishment can help your state of mind in achieving other tasks throughout the day. For me, lifting weights for the day takes 5 minutes to do a simple workout, but once it's done I feel like I've gotten something significant achieved and that makes me more motivated during the day.

Before I started a family, I went through a period of minimalism, and I had a "magic" wallet (card-sized, flips money across on the inside using elasticised bands, doesn't fit coins), and only carried that, my phone and keys. I couldn't collect receipts, lots of store cards, coins, tags or whatever else in it, and it had what I needed (back then).

(separate comments for separate habits, as per the original post)

Anti-habit: for quitting something, I've found that telling myself "wait 5 more minutes" each time I think about it can help reduce and break the habit. If your habit is linked to something else (for example, you always have a cigarette when you have a cup of coffee), this is extra useful. This helps me with not eating junk foods and overcoming a craving - often I forget about it.

0aletheianink
If you have a new habit that's not time-specific and doesn't take too long, try to do it first thing in the morning. It will not only get done (and be harder to forget), but the feeling of accomplishment can help your state of mind in achieving other tasks throughout the day. For me, lifting weights for the day takes 5 minutes to do a simple workout, but once it's done I feel like I've gotten something significant achieved and that makes me more motivated during the day.
0aletheianink
Before I started a family, I went through a period of minimalism, and I had a "magic" wallet (card-sized, flips money across on the inside using elasticised bands, doesn't fit coins), and only carried that, my phone and keys. I couldn't collect receipts, lots of store cards, coins, tags or whatever else in it, and it had what I needed (back then). (separate comments for separate habits, as per the original post)

I don't know XFrequentists's reasons, but in addition to this I think golfing as a social skill tends to apply more to old money/old institutions (and particularly in America). I don't have evidence for this, but that's pretty much the only setting I've seen it in. My husband went golfing with work a few years back (he's an system administrator) and he and the guys he went with all got drunk and played pool with the golf clubs/balls - even where it was set up as a work gathering, it wasn't taken seriously.

However, given your question - if it there was good... (read more)

I find it disappointing that there aren't any more recent comments than halfway through this year - I'll scan the comments to see if the discussion was ported elsewhere, but usually that's flagged in the post so I doubt it ...

Thank you for the link - this was essentially what I was looking for! I have yet to read the article, but it's an interesting conclusion - perhaps other commenters were simply going by their intuition or what they felt, instead of looking for evidence?

Your post was over a year ago, but I will reply anyway:

I don't know the answer to the first question, as I am also new.

To the second question, I recommend something like readability where you can clip a page (or sequence) and then read that in a really nice interface through the readability app.

0hyporational
Pocket is nice too.

Minor nitpick: I find it rather silly when people say "a full x percent" (as in, a full 89%) of something - either you're being correct and specific, and you mean 89% exactly, or you're being fairly specific and mean 89.124535% or something. You wouldn't use it to mean "around 89%" or "just under but close to 89%" - you'd round down to 88% or, again, be specific.

This was an excellent article, though - something I have thought about fleetingly before but never really considered. My personal area of interest is animal rights, wh... (read more)

I have no idea why I put that. I was trying to just be very specific, so people wouldn't ask "well, what if they hadn't heard of x" or whatever ... it may be because I'm used to reading about the entitlement of average, white, English-speaking people (specifically men), and just linked that in without thinking. It's irrelevant, so I'll go fix it - thanks.

Thank you - I think the article was actually rather weak, on review, but thank you!

I'm going to read the article now.

Your initial point was what prompted my thoughts on the issue - essentially, as I read through LW, learn new words, new ways of thinking, new approaches, will I become more rational? I suppose that's not solely vocabulary - it includes the ideas that spawned that vocabulary - but looking up definitions has something I've definitely been spending a lot of time doing!

As I said above, I think I kind of misphrased my question while trying to make it clear in my head - almost ironically, my inability to find the right words hampered my ability to communicate what I meant.

I agree completely about people making up words for new ideas - I suppose that's what I meant to bypass: we make up words as shorthand for longer concepts, because if we didn't, it would take a lot longer to say or explain what we meant. My question was meant to be along the lines of, if we didn't have those new words, would our rationality be hampered by the lack of specific words (even if we knew what we meant in our minds)? (You don't have to answer that, I was just trying to clarify!)

I had a complicated point to make about the interplay of vocabulary and simplifying ideas in order to make thinking more clear (and thus perhaps rationality?) but I think I kind of lost that in the post and have made it sound more like "can people think if they don't have words?".

I agree with what you've written, and I'd say that your last sentence rather answers my (intended) question: correlation may exist, but causation is a lot trickier to pin.

I see what you mean; that makes sense. I think that's something LW has certainly pointed out for me - by knowing one's own boundaries of understanding, one can try to further one's knowledge of the unknown.

I'm about to put child to bed so I haven't time to read the link right now, but I'll certainly be on it first thing in the morning!

I agree that sometimes using unusual, uncommon or long words when a shorter one will do can be counterproductive, but what about topic-specific vocabulary - words which are common in given circles (for example LW) but have complex ideas or meanings behind them? Or would you consider that to fall under your latter sentence?

2ThrustVectoring
Topic-specific vocabulary and technical jargon has to get finessed to be used properly. In a perfect world, you can use such words in a way that the context makes their meaning clear. Or, at the very least, gives an obvious way to research what the word means. Acronyms and abbreviations are an excellent anti-example for this - I'd never use an abbreviation unless it's absolutely necessary, and use the full phrase nearby before it. Garbage-in garbage-out is a useful way to talk about algorithms failing by seeding them with bad input, but randomly dropping GIGO in a conversation is a quick way to lose someone. Jargon and inferential distance are closely related, and you need to keep track of both together. People who are already thinking much like you are likely using the same words for the same concepts, and vice versa. Also, even if you can talk specifically in technical contexts, learning to ease people into jargon and introduce lay members to engineering disciplines is a tremendously valuable skill to learn. As in a 4-year engineering degree and this skill is a quick way to get promoted to whatever position is in between management-types and engineering-types. It's really straightforward - just have enough technical chops to not completely embarrass yourself in a technical context, and learn how to explain engineering like your audience has an MBA, and management is going to want to talk to you about engineering projects rather than other people. tl;dr - go ahead and use technical words in technical contexts, but try to do so in a way that those unfamiliar with the context can at least figure out what questions they need to ask.

He does actually say obstropolous, but he must have read obsteperous somewhere and mispronounced it. Thank you!

I have bookmarked it because I want to read pretty much every link but don't currently have the time to do so.

Are you saying then, that if we fully understood what other people were saying, there would be less irrationality?

2Vaniver
I think I'm pointing the arrow in the other direction. A common mistake people make is to misunderstand each other and themselves; if they did not make that mistake, they wouldn't necessarily be better at understanding each other or themselves, but they would at least be clearer about the boundaries of their knowledge. (This could lead them to behave in ways that do actually make them understand themselves and others better.) Consider the double illusion of transparency.

This isn't absolutely relevant, and may not be helpful, but my mother is the type of person who will talk at length - easily an hour - if you don't stop. And you can't just say "Um, I was thinking - " or "yeah, I agree", because she'll just talk over the top of you and not listen. My strategy is to wait for a pause (usually a very short one, because she doesn't leave long pauses) and then try to quickly cram a sentence in to divert the top. This may work for you, as you're not technically interrupting - you're just jumping in quickly with your idea - and you may find this is enough to divert the conversation so that you can more easily put your view across (or be asked more).

I'm not familiar with the first two, but as I was reading this article I thought of Derren Brown. I think he's a really interesting person to watch work - it shows you how deft a person can be with your mind if they're good enough, and how big the gaps in our own second-to-second thought processes can be. I find him not only entertaining but really thought-provoking.

Thanks! I hope so, in time - I just think it's wiser to watch and learn so that I can understand how LW works and what specific terms and concepts mean before jumping in with what I think I understand!

I know what you mean about the author's views replacing your own! I think it's good to sit on your thoughts for a few days afterwards and let your excitement simmer down so your rationality can kick in and pull it apart and put it back together again, although I have a feeling that with most posts you'll still end up conceding that your (new) view is on par with the author's!

I'm Katy, I'm 26, I have a 7 month old baby (I feel that's important because it heavily affects my current ability to think/sleep/eat/do anything) and a husband and ... well, I never really thought about rationality until I came across Less Wrong.

I grew up always ... wanting more. I believed in god, for a while, until I realised I was just talking to myself. I suffered from bipolar disorder (mainly depressive) from my early teens until ... well, until I became pregnant, actually, when it mysteriously disappeared. I wanted to meet people who understood, who... (read more)

1Swimmer963 (Miranda Dixon-Luinenburg)
Welcome! You can probably contribute more than you realize.