All of AlexM's Comments + Replies

1faul_sname
Hypothesis: you live in a more left-wing area of the country, while he lives in a right-wing area. If true, that suggests that in both cases, the minority is more pessimistic about the future.
1TimS
I don't disagree with your read, but this community is not the venue for partisan politics. I'd be interested in discussing political theory, which this community isn't always interested in. Nonetheless, Bush v. Obama discussions are almost inherently irrational, regardless of which side one supports.
3Zetetic
I think he's talking about "free market optimism" - the notion that deregulation, lowered taxes, less governmental oversight, a removal of welfare programs etc. lead to optimal market growth and eventually to general prosperity. Most conservative groups in America definitely proselytize this idea, I'm not sure about elsewhere.
7Shmi
Don't get sucked into discussing politics.

It seems to me that the US did rather well for itself over those years and the ones that followed, in terms of prosperity and progress and international influence and happiness and just about any other metric you might care to name.

And if you look to policies preferred by the McCarthy and other hardcore cold warriors (WW3 or ceaseless Vietnam and Afgan-like wars all over the world) and value life and well-being of non-Americans, every one of the 205 or 78 or 57 communists on Tailgunner Joe's list deserved to be awarded Hero of the Soviet Union, together with equivalent awards of all nations of Eurasia.

What? Everyone remembers the Albigensian Crusade. "Kill them all, God will know His own." And if heretics won't repent you should expel them or kill them. I agree with the Church on that one. There are demons who would mislead the people, you can't just let them get away with it. You know what happens when you don't kill the heretics? Communism. And communism killed way more people than the Church ever did.

I see you are fan of Marx and Weber. If Protestantism leads to capitalism and capitalism leads to communism, it makes sense to strike at th... (read more)

1Will_Newsome
I've read little Marx or Weber; that's not really my model. My model is that rejection of politco-religious authority leads to democracy, liberalism, communism, atheism, fascism, uFAI, and a bunch of other evil things; the divine right of kings was the only defensible Schelling point, and when it fell chaos spread. Communism wouldn't have existed if the Catholic Kings had crushed the progenitors of the Reformation the same way they crushed the Cathars.

Well, they shouldn't do it anymore, for obvious reasons. But at that time it was a good idea. The Reformation led to a shift in values and political structures that reached one climax with the French revolution

This is the reason why the French revolution happened in Catholic country that followed your advice and extirpated all heresy without mercy.

2Will_Newsome
But the revolution happened after a second round of religious toleration, no? If the French government had kept up its reputation as able to put down threats of politco-religious unorthodoxy then the revolution might never have gotten traction. Or is that not accurate?

I mean, jeez, have you seen how women behave in the workplace? They crave the occasional spanking.

Indeed, what workplace could be without discipline? Be assured that your boss, just like you, regrets the rotten and degenerate liberal age we are living in and looks forward to the day when he can properly discipline you.

2) Men with guns are always at the ready to take men away who dare discipline their women.

You are stronger than "your women" so you can discipline them at your pleasure. I don't see why you complain when the men with guns, w... (read more)

0Eugine_Nier
Strawman. Aurini isn't arguing for disciplining women because their weaker. He's argument is that you should discipline women when they resort to histrionics.

IMHO, the best "test of irrationality" would be acceptance of alternative medicine.

It matters little whether you believe in global warming, but belief in homeopathy, faith healing or anything else that makes you to delay the official thing, will make difference in your life, and not for the better.

2Document
Isn't that under dispute between "believers" and non-"believers" to begin with?
6Eugine_Nier
Given the state of the official thing, I don't thing that's obvious.

Is there any nation that "rationally and selfishly follows its collective interest"?

1wedrifid
It is safe to say that there isn't. The rest of us would have been left or overwhelmed within months.
0sam0345
Nations are less rational and self interested than individuals, but rationality and self interest is for the most part a rough approximation, as good as a spherical cow. It is a quite good approximation for monarchies such as Qatar and the former Lichtenstein. It is a very bad approximation to Palestinian behavior.

The quote above? Not obviously wrong, just not even wrong and as unfalsifiable as any proper conspiracy theory should be.

Of the "enemy" regimes listed, US went to war only with Nazis and three of them were valued NATO members. One can call Vietnam and Korean wars in a sense limited, because US refused to use nukes and escalate into full WW3.

I wouldn't comment about Israel, because there is nothing more mind-killing that discussion about Israeli/Palestinian politics :-(

8jhuffman
That is true, but we don't have to get into all of it. His assertion that the USG does not actually support Israel is frankly bizarre. USG gives them billions of dollars a year in cash, in weapons systems and other material support.

Sorry, but that sounds like motivated stopping to me. Coming up with ways by which blind evolution and guiding divinity might be compatible isn't really hard at all.

What is hard is to make compatible evolution and all-loving divinity. To watch how ones creations torment and devour each other for hundreds of millions of years is not exactly my idea of love.

The argument from metaethics was outdated from the beginning, at least for Christian apologetic purposes. Moral laws of all tribes and civilizations are compatible and are completely opposed to message of Jesus.

Natural law says: love your family. Jesus says: abandon them and follow me. Natural law: love your friends, hate your enemies. Jesus: love everyone. Natural law: defend yourself. Jesus: do not resist. Natural law: defend your property. Jesus: give up everything etc, etc....

Even if ignore all problems ofderiving ought from is, there is problem which parts of nature we are supposed to follow.

If Darwin says "kill them all, the strongest will survive", then Kelvin would say "kill yourself, why bother waiting to heat death of the universe?"

Evolution is no threat to religion.

Evolution, paleontology and geology and biology in general are definitely threat to religion in both forms most popular today - strict Bible/Koran conservative literalist faith and fluffy liberal one.

The first is simply proven wrong - the world was not created in six days, there was no worldwide flood, etc.

And the case for all-loving, all-forgiving god or "spiritual force" is refuted even more decisively.

What is left open is the case for the supreme bastard of the universe, the obssesive-compulsive psychopathic sadist who painstakingly designs 500,000 species of beetles and then watches how they devour each other. ;-)

-2sam0345
Firstly, looks to me that the predominant religion is environmentalism, and evolution is no threat to environmentalism, but natural selection is. Secondly, if you insist on religion strictly defined, religions that frankly admit that they are religious, these days most of them propose theistic evolution. Only a minority of believers propose that the world was created a few thousand years ago. What the Fish and Wildlife service attempts to enforce, looks very much like theistic evolution also. Consider, for example, the red wolf controversy and the Californian spotted owl controversy. If you believe in natural selection, they should not attempt to enforce their official government species definitions on nature, when the creatures concerned keep having sex with each other regardless of official species boundaries. The barred owl is superior to the spotted owl, which may well be the reason why female spotted owls like to have sex with barred owls. If you believe that nature should take its course, let nature take its course. Natural selection refutes the case for a nice god. However, the Fish and Wildlife service is attempting to enforce a concept of nature and evolution that owes more to Disney films such as "Bambi", which version of evolution is entirely compatible with a nice guy god.
1Kaj_Sotala
I think Evil had the right idea.

Why would abolition of political parties make politics better? Look at politics before modern democracy and political parties. I personally can't imagine something more mind-killing than court intrigues in, say, 18th century.

I can likewise imagine (and could prefer) a scientific civilization that is freely polyamorous, atheistic, Eugenicist, etc.

Scientific civilization that actually understands science of biology would steer clear of eugenics.

For pure pragmatic reasons - breeding better (whatewer value of "better" you choose) humans would last at least several centuries - and the problem is that you do not know what traits would be needed then.

Here is one actual historical example of human breeding. Had Frederick II and other kings of Prussia continued the work, ... (read more)

Why can't modern Nazis disavow ancient Nazi practice in favor of some true essence that makes sense in modern terms?

One can argue that holocaust denial is an attempt to bring nazism closer to modern ethical values. Real, authentic Nazis were proud of their achievement and would be outraged by thought that their successors would call them a lie.

Why not start your search for the true essence in Lord of the Rings

Some people do :-P

-1Mader_Levap
Not publicly. Holocaust denial exists since it (mass murdering of certain groups of humans) make them look bad. Of course, it is Insane Troll Logic, but I do not think anyone expects sane logic from Nazis.
8DanielLC
Real, authentic Nazis were also Holocaust deniers. It wasn't public knowledge.
0Document
It sounds like you're using the word "Nazi" differently.

If China is moderate capitalism, one shudders how would extreme one looks like...

0Torben
Well, moderate as in they don't have rule of law etc. What I meant to say was that even this level of capitalism has worked wonders in dragging hundreds of millions of people out of poverty. Contrary to decades of Western foreign aid.

I'm immensely skeptical of the notion that clever people are needed to tell dumb people what to do to achieve what they want

Every system ever devised consists of smart people telling the dumb ones what to do. Even in feudal society with hereditary rule, the thicker-than-brick kings were manipulated by smart barons and courtiers :-P

Caveat lector: I'm reading Atlas Shrugged right now.

Generalization from fictional evidence

2Torben
I'd venture capitalism less so than other systems. At least dumb people to some extent get what they want in capitalism. But of course, this is one aspect of nature that's very difficult to remedy and I worry that the cure is worse than the ailment I meant it as an explanation of my current dismal perspective, not as evidence of anything. Sorry if it didn't come across right.

There are also people who feel they are Jewish, but other Jews would probably disagree ...

1NancyLebovitz
See also Jews for Jesus who look a lot more like evangelical Christians, and Christian Identity who are apt to believe that they are descendents of the lost ten tribes who ended up in Britain, and that the other people who think they're Jewish aren't Jewish.

Careless downvoting (and upvoting) is something one can expect from new members. Veterans know that voting is serious thing that is done after deep deliberation and soul searching, but for a newbie, it is just click.

Speaking from my own experience (not that I would dare to call myself veteran)

For pure pragmatic reasons, peaceful methods would be still preferable to violent ones...

Why Terrorism Does Not Work

This is the first article to analyze a large sample of terrorist groups in terms of their policy effectiveness. It includes every foreign terrorist organization (FTO) designated by the U.S. Department of State since 2001. The key variable for FTO success is a tactical one: target selection. Terrorist groups whose attacks on civilian targets outnumber attacks on military targets do not tend to achieve their policy objectives, regardless of th... (read more)

Burkean conservatism translated into modern philosophical jargon. This argument would apply only to religions that are at least centuries old. How many of these remain in unchanged form in modern Western world?

0NancyLebovitz
Wouldn't Burkean conservativism recommend being a member of any reasonably stable religion, perhaps preferably the one you were born into?

Maybe in the 80's, when we were only a few Satan worshipping nuts, but we are now in 21st century where science fiction and fantasy decisively won and is The Mainstream Culture now. Of 10 biggest grossing movies of the year, all are F/SF and role playing games are worldwide multibillion industry. Someone who does not know who is Harry Potter and what is Warcraft is the crazy weirdo :P

3taryneast
Some SF movies have been popular of late - and most mainstream films have become more science-heavy... but people that watch these shows are in no way fans of the genre. I don't know of any Mainstream types who read SF books regularly or who avidly watch more than one or two of the most main of mainstream SF shows/series. By contrast, even the non-uber-geek SF fans will know a Ferengi from a Centari by sight, will understand what the odd-even rule is and can probably rattle of the three laws of robotics (plus the extra one) on the spot. These are the people I mean - and I still think there's a difference between them and people who may have just watched The Matrix, LOTR or one of the X-Men movies. Actually being part of the full on SF fandom culture is definitely non-conformist. Think trekkies (or trekkers if you prefer). And by role-playing gamers... I don't mean video games... I mean classic dice-rolling "your elven warlock spots three kobolds" kind of role-playing games. WoW is a different kettle of fish... but I know of nobody that thinks classic RPGs are "mainstream".
2NancyLebovitz
Your real non-conformist still has buddies. That's why it's worth his while to get coded tattoos which have online explanations.

It's actually unclear to me that religion does more harm than good

For quick and dirty empirical evidence, look at latest european poll Do countries on the top of table with least belief in God, spirit or life force behave more rationally?

Our current civilization runs lots of computer simulations, nearly all of them are for entertainment purpose. For one "ancestor simulation" trying to be accurate there are millions of WoW and other games with no attempt of realism whatsoever.

Therefore, we if we are in simulation, we are orcs and trolls waiting to be slaughtered by players for few measly XP :-P

Buying lottery ticket as a purchase of fantasy is irrational - fantasy is for free. You can dream about being a millionaire without spending money on tiny scrap of paper :P

Why? You cannot change the laws of physics and they have no impact of your daily life either.

You can say the same about astronomy, biology, chemistry, history and just any part of human knowledge that does not interfere with your daily life.

Imagine someone who could not find his country on map, does not know who is president or PM, does not know how his government functions, does not vote because he does not understands what are elections.

Is such person worthy of admiration or respect? I do not think so.

1b1shop
I'm concerned with margins, not extremes. I can find my country on the map. I have an idea of how close my country is to revolution. I can come up with impressive-sounding political theories to discuss with others that signal the personality traits I value. But I think I'd benefit more by studying the details of physics than the details of politics.

Who regards cryonics as evil like child molestation? General public sees cryonics as fraud - somethink like buying real estate on the moon or waiting for mothership, and someone paying for it as gullible fool.

For example, look at discussions when Britney Spears http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2520762/posts

wanted to be frozen. Lots of derision, no hatred.

2NihilCredo
Bad example. People want to make fun of celebrities (especially a community as caustic and "anti-elitist" as the Freepers). She could have announced that she was enrolling in college, or something else similarly common-sensible, and you would still have got a threadful of nothing but cheap jokes. A discussion about "My neighbour / brother-in-law / old friend from high school told me he has decided to get frozen" would be more enlightening.
0gwern
Does the fact that my specific example may not be perfect refute my point that mere indirection & chance does not eliminate all criticism and this can be understood by merely introspecting one's intuitions?

This might depend on how long it takes to develop revival. Any estimates?

It depends on the gap between us and the future society - if the wilder/more optimistic predictions of transhumanism and artificial intelligence come true - and they have to come true for cryonics to work, the gap between 2050 and now will be bigger that between us and Stone Age.

Would you invite your great...grandfather Ugg for dinner?

0NancyLebovitz
I've wondered if the revived people might end up as an underclass, or as several underclasses.
0Roko
What's wrong with getting revived in 2320?

I hear this from cryo skeptics all the time. Doubts -- not so much as to whether it >works or not, but as to whether the patients who could be revived are human or not.

No, the question is whether the advanced posthuman civilisation will see the frozen primitive men as human beings.

How many resources are we spending to save and improve lives of apes?

If cryonics works in the first place, it means everyone who could be preserved but >isn't, is a human casualty

The purpose of cryonics , at least as as advertised here, is to save specifically you... (read more)

3RobinZ
How many resources are we spending to save and improve lives of the mentally retarded? My cursory research has over half a billion U.S. dollars in the United States in the year 2002.

On the other hand, I know someone who became interested in paganism, tested it by >believing in it, and found it worked, so continued to believe.

how paganism worked for him? pagan rituals were cool and pagan chicks were hot, or something more? :P

7Richard_Kennaway
Worshipping the Goddess that infuses Nature made a difference in his life, or something like that. As I say, I didn't feel comfortable about pressing him on the subject. It would have been like asking what sex is like.

The bigger problem is that accepting Pascal wager is just first step on the road to faith. And walking the road means to live and pray as if you had faith.

Somewhat, I do not see this guy doing it...

|Interesting.

as interesting as picking up rocks and observing insects crawling under them, IMHO

|Never head of this guy. Link?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yury_Ignatyevich_Mukhin

most of his works are online, in Russian of course, links from Russian wiki page

2Randolf
What, insects are fascinating!

why? how do you measure that P of caring personal god who saves human souls from extinction is higher that P of unthinking mechanism ("akashic chronicle", "reincarnation wheel") doing the same?

5JoshuaZ
I don't, but something like a reincarnation wheel or an akashic chronicle is not inconsistent with the existence of a deity so I don't need to.

For real life example: one Russian kook preaches exactly this doctrine - strong atheism combined with strong belief of immortality of souls. Add holocaust denial, moon landing denial and admiration of Stalin as greatest hero that ever lived and you have something that sells dozens of books and gains many dedicated followers. Any more about him would belong to "irrationality quotes" thread if one existed...

2JoshuaZ
Interesting. Never head of this guy. Link?

Cryonics wants to be small, or why should the future want you?

All this technical discussion misses what I see as the major problem of cryonics if it works as advertised - why should the future want us?

Imagine if today were discovered few frozen Homo habilis and had technology to revive them. After, they would spend their lives in comfortable zoo that is paradise by ape men standards ( plentiful food! no dangerous beasts! warm shelter!)

Now try the same scenario, but with few millions of our frozen ancestors. The results will be same - at best, few dozens wo... (read more)

6lsparrish
I hear this from cryo skeptics all the time. Doubts -- not so much as to whether it works or not, but as to whether the patients who could be revived are human or not. Your whole argument treats the patients as dead and gone, and the people who would die without cryonics as expendable. It is simply not consistent with cryonics working in the first place. If cryonics works in the first place, it means everyone who could be preserved but isn't, is a human casualty -- and everyone who could be reanimated but isn't is stuck in a coma against their will. I don't care if you give that an arbitrarily low probability, but if you are going to argue about what is the case if it does work, you have to remain consistent with that assumption if you want to criticize it effectively. Luckily, future humans will have experience with suspended animation and radical surgery long before they can realistically revive a cryonics patient. Getting someone suspended with near-zero damage is an unsolved challenge, but few seem doubtful that it will be solved at some point. Repairing the damage of a current-day cryonics case is necessarily further down the road. Simply having experience with reanimating suspendees (and seeing major surgery such as full body replacement using regrown organs), I expect they will have a much more enlightened perspective on this situation than your average cryonics critic today. Death will then be viewed as something extremely uncommon and in need of extremely good evidence before medical procedures and ethics can be cast aside.
2Soki
Someone who knew you may want to bring you back. If it takes centuries, then the more people frozen the better since it will be more likely that someone you knew would be brought back by someone else. And then he may bring you back too. This assumes that the government does not prevent people form doing this.
4NancyLebovitz
This might depend on how long it takes to develop revival. Any estimates? If it's just a few decades, cryonics companies might want to signal trustworthiness by reviving everyone. In The First Immortal, a science fiction novel about cryonics, there's a law that no one gets revived unless there's someone willing to do the work of integrating them into the future society. In other words, you'd do well to be an interesting person, and better to be from a family with a very strong culture of loyalty, though I suppose that integration could also be a matter of contract with a cryonics company.

Good for you. Now you only have to renounce all pride, glory and luxury and spend your life praying for the gift of faith. It will eventually come, as Pascal reassures us.

http://www.indepthinfo.com/extended-quotes/necessity-of-the-wager.shtml

(scroll down to note 233 for Pascal's famous wager argument in its full context)