LESSWRONG
LW

All of Atomsk's Comments + Replies

Interlude with the Confessor (4/8)
Atomsk170

I think that making men uncomfortable would be best done by simply pointing out that in a society where non-consensual sex was no longer illegal, non-consensual male-on-male sex would also not be illegal.

And at least that would move peoples minds away from imagining a world where women are defending themselves from rapists left and right, to one where men are just as preoccupied with defending THEMSELVES from rape as they are raping others. Clearly neither of those scenarios is what is occurring in the society you have imagined, but hopefully it would move people closer to a more gender-equitable reading rather than assuming youre talking about some sort of Gorean hellhole.

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Interlude with the Confessor (4/8)
Atomsk40

Think about Free Speech. People have the right to lie to you, to say anything they want to you. A stranger can walk up to you on the street and say horrible, uncomfortable, distress-causing sequences of words and symbols to you, and theres not really much you can do to stop it. Why should a person be allowed to say to you a thing that is not true, a thing that you do not want to hear, just in the interest of his own free expression? Now just include sexuality to be included under the umbrella of free expression, blur the lines between mental and physical p... (read more)

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5Articulator
We are just simply too good at taking our own norms for granted. Thank you for explaining this in a way I can really get behind. I think we sometimes forget that not only is all ethics relative, but that we have skewed weightings based on what is 'normal'. The number of people driven to depression and suicide by legal means... I wonder, if certain negative strains of human social interaction were made illegal, and guiltworthy, while rape was made legal, and we waited for a couple hundred years, would people still rank them in the same order? If rape was something to 'get over', while surprise polygamy (trying for a word with as few connotations as possible - couldn't find anything) and bullying were horrible events to 'survive'... Hmm, it's certainly a good question. Now, since I'm not a rape victim, I couldn't presume to guess very accurately, but perhaps the knowledge that it's a bad thing reinforces that it's a bad thing? I can't help but draw a rather unfortunate parallel with the broad range of human experiences that are scary at first, and then enjoyable. Before I get voted down into submission, consider that I have used the most physical descriptions I can, since those are the ones we are less likely to change. In the least offensive way possible, would we want to go bungee jumping (again) if it was treated as a terrible thing? If we were told it was terrible our entire lives, then forced into doing it? Traumatic in the extreme. Consider, however, that some people are pushed in these heights-based sports. Off cliffs, out of airplanes, onto ziplines. They enjoy it in the end, so it's ok, right? Would they enjoy it if they weren't supposed to? If it was rape? Interesting questions. Don't worry for my morality, if this musing leaves you fearing for your orifices. I'm a perfectly well-adjusted nihilist, who values his continued (enjoyable) existence enough not to do anything silly.