All of blf's Comments + Replies

blf01

This quote is unsourced and cannot be found through a few online searches.  It may be fake.

7FeepingCreature
It's a historic joke. The quote is from the emails. (I think) Attributing it to Lenin references the degree to which the original communists were sidelined by Stalin, a more pedestrian dictator; presumably in reference to Sam Altman.
blf120

It's the lazy beaver function: https://googology.fandom.com/wiki/Lazy_beaver_function

2Yitz
Thanks! Is there any literature on the generalization of this, properties of “unreachable” numbers in general? Just realized I'm describing the basic concept of computability at this point lol.
blf3-2

Strong disagree.  Probably what you say applies to the case of a couple that cares sufficiently to use several birth control methods, and that has no obstruction to using some methods (e.g., bad reactions to birth-control pills).

Using only condoms, which from memory was the advice I got as a high-schooler in Western Europe twenty years ago, seems to have a 3% failure rate (per year, not per use of course!) even when used correctly (leaving space at the tip, using water-based lubricant). That is small but not negligible.

It would a good public service t... (read more)

6Viliam
The number seems unbelievably high to me. I don't have strong evidence to the contrary, but I also don't trust self-reported correct use.
7dr_s
You mentioned things like women who lie about contraception and split second decisions, which IMO are nonsense to bring up in this context. But going back to condoms: yes, I believe that 3% figure to be garbage. The 3% figure is average and based on people self-reporting. But in practice, condoms are hard to break, and even if they do break it's easy to realise. Morning after pills are a thing for "accidents" you notice. So IMO reasonably conscientious people that actually use condoms properly (rather than just saying so in questionnaires) and double down with morning after pill in case of accidents will achieve a much better rate. 3% is an upper bound, because it includes a lot of confounders that skew the rate to be worse.
blf50

The Manhattan project had benefits potentially in the millions of lives if the counterfactual was broader Nazi domination.  So while AI is different in the size of the benefit, it is a quantitative difference.  I agree it would be interesting to compute QALYs with or without AI, and do the same for some of the other examples in the list.

blf40

Usually, negative means "less than 0", and a comparison is only available for real numbers and not complex numbers, so negative numbers mean negative real numbers.

That said, ChatGPT is actually correct to use "Normally" in "Normally, when you multiply two negative numbers, you get a positive number." because taking the product of two negative floating point numbers can give zero if the numbers are too tiny.  Concretely in python -1e300 * -1e300 gives an exact zero, and this holds in all programming languages that follow the IEEE 754 standard.

6Rana Dexsin
I disagree with the last paragraph and think that “Normally” is misleading as stated in the OP; I think it's clear when talking about numbers in a general sense that issues with representations of numbers as used in computers aren't included except as a side curiosity or if there's a cue to the effect that that's what's being discussed.
blf30

An option is to just to add the month and year, something like "November 2023 AI Timelines".

9Daniel Kokotajlo
How about "AI Timelines (Nov '23)"
blf42

I guess if your P(doom) is sufficiently high, you could think that moving T(doom) back from 2040 to 2050 is the best you can do?

Of course the costs have to be balanced, but well, I wouldn't mind living ten more years. I think that is a perfectly valid thing to want for any non-negligible P(doom).

blf159

The usual advice to get a good YES/NO answer is to first ask for the explanation, then the answer.  The way you did it, GPT4 decides YES/NO, then tries to justify it regardless of whether it was correct.

blf10

The first four and next four kinds of alignment you propose are parallel except that they concern a single person or society as a whole.  So I suggest the following names which are more parallel.  (Not happy about 3 and 7.)

  1. Personal Literal Genie: Do exactly what I say.
  2. Personal Servant: Do what I intended for you to do.
  3. Personal Patriot: Do what I would want you to do.
  4. Personal Nanny: Be loyal to me, but do what’s best for me, not strictly what I tells you to do or what he wants or intended.
  5. Public Literal Genie: Do whatever it is collectively told.
  6. P
... (read more)
blf20

The analogy (in terms of dynamics of the debate) with climate change is not that bad: "great news and we need more" is in fact a talking point of people who prefer not acting against climate change.  E.g., they would mention correlations between plant growth and CO2 concentration.  That said, it would be weird to call such people climate deniers.

blf20

There is a simple intuition for why PSD testing cannot be hard for matrix multiplication or inversion: regardless of how you do it and what matrix you apply it to, it only gives you one bit of information.  Getting even just one bit of information about each matrix element of the result requires  applications of PSD testing.  The only way out would be if one only needed to apply PSD testing to tiny matrices.

blf10

That's a good question.  From what I've seen, PSD testing can be done by trying to make a Cholesky decomposition (writing the matrix as  with  lower-triangular) and seeing if it fails.  The Cholesky decomposition is an  decomposition in which the lower-triangular  and upper-triangular  are simply taken to have the same diagonal entries, so PSD testing should have the same complexity as  decomposition.  Wikipedia quotes Bunch and Hopcroft 1974 who show that  dec... (read more)

2blf
There is a simple intuition for why PSD testing cannot be hard for matrix multiplication or inversion: regardless of how you do it and what matrix you apply it to, it only gives you one bit of information.  Getting even just one bit of information about each matrix element of the result requires n2 applications of PSD testing.  The only way out would be if one only needed to apply PSD testing to tiny matrices.
blf50

I think it can be done in , where I recall for non-expert's convenience that  is the exponent of matrix multiplication / inverse / PSD testing / etc. (all are identical). Let  be the space of  matrices and let  be the -dimensional vector space of matrices with zeros in all non-specified entries of the problem.  The maximum-determinant completion is the (only?) one whose inverse is in .  Consider the map  and its projection  where we zero o... (read more)

3paulfchristiano
Agree about the downside of fragmented discussion, I left some time for MO discussion before posting the bounty but I don't know how much it helped. I agree that some approach like that seems like it could work for O(nω). I'm not familiar with those techniques and so don't know a technique that needs O(logϵ) iterations rather than O(√m) or O(ϵ−1). For Newton iteration it seems like you need some kind of bound on the condition number. But I haven't thought about it much, since it seems like something fundamentally different is needed to break O(nω). I believe that one of those might just work out of the box.
blf10

Sorry I missed your question.  I believe it's perfectly fine to edit the post for small things like this.

blf10

Your suggestion that the AI would only get 1e-21 more usable matter by eliminating humans made me think about orders of magnitude a bit.  According to the World Economic Forum humans have made (hence presumably used) around 1.1e15kg of matter.  That's around 2e-10 of the Earth's mass of 5.9e24kg.  Now you could argue that what should be counted is the mass that can eventually be used by a super optimizer, but then we'd have to go into the weeds of how long the system would be slowed down by trying to keep humanity alive, figuring out what is needed for that, etc.

1[anonymous]
Right plus think on a solar system or galaxy level sale. Now consider that properly keeping humans alive - in a way actually competent not the scam life support humans offer now - involves separating their brain from their body and keeping it alive and in perfect help essentially forever using nanotechnology to replace all other organ functions etc. The human would experience a world via VR or remote surrogates. This would cost like 10 kg of matter a human with plausible limit level tech. They can't breed so it's 80 billion times 10 kg....
blf10

You might be interested in Dissolving the Fermi Paradox by Sandberg, Drexler and Ord, who IIRC take into account the uncertainties in various parameters in the Drake equation and conclude that it is very plausible for us to be alone in the Universe.

There is also the "grabby aliens" model proposed by Robin Hanson, which (together with an anthropic principle?) is supposed to resolve the Fermi paradox while allowing for alien civilizations that expand close to the speed of light.

blf31

I would add to that list the fact that some people would want to help it.  (See, e.g., the Bing persistent memory thread where commenters worry about Sydney being oppressed.)

1Max TK
Good addition! I even know a few of those "AI rights activists" myself. Since this here is my first post - would it be considered bad practice to edit my post to include it?
blf107

I strongly disagree-voted (but upvoted).  Even if there is nothing we can do to make AI safer, there is value to delaying AGI by even a few days: good things remain good even if they last a finite time.  Of course, if P(AI not controllable) is low enough the ongoing deaths matter more.

blf40

The novel is really great!  (I especially liked the depiction of the race dynamics that progressively lead the project lead to cut down on safety.)  I'm confused by one of the plot points:

Jerry interacts with Juna (Virtua) before she is supposed to be launched publicly.  Is the idea that she was already connected to the outside world in a limited way, such as through the Unlife chat?

4Karl von Wendt
Interesting that you mention this. I just discussed it with someone else who made the same point. Honestly, I didn't think it through while writing the novel, so you could regard it as a logical flaw. However, in hindsight and inspired by the comments of the other person, I came up with a theory about how this was possible which I will include in a revised version at some later point.
blf90

Spot check: the largest amount I've seen stated for the Metaverse cost is $36 billion, and the Apollo Program was around $25 billion.  Taking into account inflation makes the Apollo Program around 5 times more expensive than the Metaverse.  Still, I had no idea that the Metaverse was even on a similar order of magnitude!

2Lone Pine
Thank you for this. I was going by statistics shared in a recent episode of the All-In Podcast, and I took those stats for granted.
gwern*231

The $36b number appeared to be extremely bogus when I looked into it the other day after seeing it on Twitter. I couldn't believe it was that large - even FB doesn't have that much money to burn each year on just one thing like Metaverse - and figured it had to be something like 'all Metaverse expenditures to date' or something else.

It was given without a source in the tweet I was looking at & here. So where does this '$36b' come from? It appears to first actually be FB's total 'capex' reported in some earnings call or filing, which means that it's cov... (read more)

blf50

Minor bug.  When an Answer is listed in the sidebar of a post, the beginning of the answer is displayed, even if it starts with a spoiler.  Hovering above the answer shows the full answer, which again ignores spoiler markup.  For instance consider the sidebar of https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/x6AB4i6xLBgTkeHas/framing-practicum-general-factor-2.

5MondSemmel
I didn't immediately understand this description, so now I've taken a screenshot.
blf10

Another possibility would be for this behavior to come from grooming behavior in primates, during which (in many species?) lice and other stuff found on the skin seems to be eaten.  In that case there is some clear advantage to eating the lice because it may otherwise infect another nearby individual.

blf20

Two related questions to get a sense of scale of the social problem.  (I'm interested in any precise operationalization, as obviously the questions are underspecified.)

  • Roughly how many people are pushing the state of the art in AI?
  • Roughly how many people work on AI alignment?
4Lumpyproletariat
My off-the-cuff answers are ~about thirty thousand, and less than a hundred people respectively. That's from doing some googling and having spoken with AI safety researchers in the past, I've no particular expertise.
blf21

I think it would be a good idea to ask the question at the ongoing thread on AGI safety questions.

blf10

Your interlocutor in the other thread seemed to suggest that they were busy until mid-July or so.  Perhaps you could take this into account when posting.

I agree that IEEE754 doubles was quite an unrealistic choice, and too easy.  However, the other extreme of having a binary blob with no structure at all being manifest seems like it would not make for an interesting challenge.  Ideally, there should be several layers of structure to be understood, like in the example of a "picture of an apple", where understanding the file encoding is not the only thing one can do.

1anonymousaisafety
I have posted my file here https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/BMDfYGWcsjAKzNXGz/eavesdropping-on-aliens-a-data-decoding-challenge.
blf10

These simple ratios are "always" , see my comment https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/dFFdAdwnoKmHGGksW/contest-an-alien-message?commentId=Nz2XKbjbzGysDdS4Z for a proposal that 0.73 is close to  (which I am not completely convinced by).

blf10

If you calculate the entropy  of each of the 64 bit positions (where  and  are the proportion of bits 0 and 1 among 2095 at that position), then you'll see that the entropy depends much more smoothly on position if we convert from little endian to big endian, namely if we sort the bits as 57,58,...,64, then 49,50,...,56, then 41,42,...,48 and so on until 1,...,8.  That doesn't sound like a very natural boundary behaviour of an automaton, unless it is then encoded as little endian for some reason.

2dkirmani
Now that I know that, I've updated towards the "float64" area of hypothesis space. But in defense of the "cellular automaton" hypotheses, just look at the bitmap! Ordered initial conditions evolving into (spatially-clumped) chaos, with at least one lateral border exhibiting repetitive behavior:
blf10

Do you see how such an iteration can produce the long-distance correlations I mention in a message below, between floats at positions that differ by a factor of ?  It seems that this would require some explicit dependence on the index.

2Donald Hobson
Its not exactly 2/e. Here is a plot of the "error" of those points. The x axis is the larger point. The y axis is the smaller point minus 2/e times the larger. So its within about 1% of 2/e, suggesting it might be a real thing, or might just be a coincidence.
blf10

This observation is clearer when treating the 64-bit chunks simply as double-precision IEEE754 floating points.  Then the set of pairs  for which  is  for some  clearly draws lines with slopes close to powers of .  But they don't seem quite straight, so the slope is not so clear.  In any case there is some pretty big long-distance correlation between  and  with rather different indices.  (Note that if we explain the first line  then t... (read more)

blf20

Here is a rather clear sign that it is IEEE754 64 bit floats indeed.  (Up to correctly setting the endianness of 8-byte chunks,) if we remove the first n bits from each chunk and count how many distinct values that takes, we find a clear phase transition at n=12, which corresponds to removing the sign bit and the 11 exponent bits.

These first 12 bits take 22 different values, which (in binary) clearly cluster around 1024 and 3072, suggesting that the first bit is special.  So without knowing about IEEE754 we could have in principle figured out the... (read more)

2dkirmani
Alternative hypothesis: The first several bits (of each 64-bit chunk) are less chaotic than the middle bits due to repetitive border behavior of a 1-D cellular automaton. This hypothesis also accounts for the observation that the final seven bits of each chunk are always either 1000000 or 0111111. If you were instead removing the last n bits from each chunk, you'd find another clear phase transition at n=7, as the last seven bits only have two observed configurations.
blf10

Whenever , this quantity is at most 4.

I'm finding also around 50 instances of  (namely ), with again .

2gjm
It doesn't look as if there are a lot of other such relationships to be found. There are a few probably-coincidental simple linear relationships between consecutive numbers very near the start. There are lots of y=−x, quite a lot of 4x=4−y2, one maybe-coincidental 14−x=2−y2, one maybe-coincidental x=−4(1−y)2, some 2x=1−y2, and I'm not seeing anything else among the first 400 pairs. [EDITED to add:] But I have only looked at relationships where all the key numbers are powers of 2; maybe I should be considering things with 5s in as well. (Or maybe it's 2s and 10s rather than 2s and 5s.)
2gjm
There is one place where −xn=4(1−xn+1)2. I wonder whether there are many other relationships of broadly similar shape.
blf30

I'm treating the message as a list of 2095 chunks of 64 bits.  Let d(i,j) be the Hamming distance between the i-th and j-th chunk.  The pairs (i,j) that have low Hamming distance (namely differ by few bits) cluster around straight lines with ratios j/i very close to integer powers of 2/e (I see features at least from (2/e)^-8 to (2/e)^8).

1blf
This observation is clearer when treating the 64-bit chunks simply as double-precision IEEE754 floating points.  Then the set of pairs (i,j) for which xi/xj is ±2n for some n clearly draws lines with slopes close to powers of 2/e.  But they don't seem quite straight, so the slope is not so clear.  In any case there is some pretty big long-distance correlation between xi and xj with rather different indices.  (Note that if we explain the first line j≃(2/e)i then the other powers are clearly consequences.)
blf30

Yes, heuristic means a method to estimate things without too much effort.

"If I were properly calibrated then [...] correct choice 50% of the time." points out that if lsusr was correct to be undecided about something, then it should be the case that both options were roughly equally good, so there should be a 50% chance that the first or second is the best.  If that were the case, we could say that he is calibrated, like a measurement device that has been adjusted to give results as close to reality as possible.

"I didn't lose the signal. I had just re... (read more)

blf60

It would be very interesting to see how much it understand space, for instance by making it draw maps. Perhaps "A map of New York City, with Central Park highlighted"? (I'm not sure if this is specific enough, but I fear that adding too many details will push Dall-E to join together various images.)

blf20

Contest: making a one-page comic on artificial intelligence for amateur mathematicians by March 9. The text must be in French and the original drawing on paper must be sent to them. Details at https://images.math.cnrs.fr/Onzieme-edition-de-Bulles-au-carre-a-vos-crayons-jusqu-au-9-mars?lang=fr

I'm not related in any way to this contest but I figured there may be some people interested in popularizing Alignment. I can help translate text to French. The drawing quality does not need to be amazing, see some previous winners at https://images.math.cnrs.fr/Result... (read more)

blf10

The first one you mention appears in the list as one word, GiveDirectly.  I initially had trouble finding it.

blf40

It seems to me the word "dialog" may be appropriate: to me it has the connotation of reaching out to people you may not normally interact with.

2DirectedEvolution
I agree, it does have that connotation, and it also has the implication of a peaceful conversation. A “culture of dialog” doesn’t sound bad. I guess that for me, “dialog” just doesn’t get my attention. I think that for an open-ended, evocative phrase to work, it has to be sort of vivid. Maybe that’s why I like “persuasion.”
blf70

Does there exist a paper version of Yudkowsky's book "Rationality: From AI to Zombies"? I only found a Kindle version but I would like to give it as a present to someone who is more likely to read a dead-tree version.

Elo120

no. print your own after buying the ebook. If you go to an office-supply store they should be able to print and bind it for you.

Manfred150

Yes, it's entitled "Good and Real." The shadowy cabal behind LessWrong wrote it under one of their other pseudonyms, "Gary Drescher."

blf20

I am not sure of myself, here, but I would expect a malicious AI to do the following. The first few (or many) times you run it, tell you the optimal stock. Then once in a while give a non-optimal stock. You would be unable to determine whether the AI was simply not turned on those times, or was not quite intelligent/resourceful enough to find the right stock. It may be that you would want the profits to continue.

By allowing itself to give you non-optimal stocks (but still making you rich), the AI can transmit information, such as its location, to anyon... (read more)

0Stuart_Armstrong
We can use various indifference methods to make the AI not care about these other answers.
2Houshalter
The AIs motivations can be precisely controlled. In fact such an AI can be limited to purely prediction. It would have no agency. No motivations or goals whatsoever. It just tries to predict what the price of each stock will be the next day. For such a task, the AI doesn't need any of the reduced impact stuff described here. That stuff becomes relevant in more complicated domains, like controlling a robot body in the real world. Say, to do something simple like collect paperclips that have fallen on the floor. In such a domain you might want to limit it to just predicting what a human would do if they were controlling the robot. Not find the absolute optimal sequence of actions. Which might involve running away, building more robots, and taking over the world. Then building as many paperclip factories as possible. AIXI is controllable in this way. Or at least the Solomonoff induction part, which just predicts the future. You could just use it to see what the future will be. The dangerous optimization only comes in later. When you put another program on top of it that searches for the optimal sequence of actions to get a certain outcome. An outcome we might not want. As far as I can tell, all the proposals for AI control require the ability to use the AI like this. As an optimizer or predictor for an arbitrary goal. Which we can control, if only in a restricted sense. If the AI is fundamentally malicious and uncontrollable, there is no way to get useful work out of it. Let alone use it to build FAI.