All of Caerulea-Lawrence's Comments + Replies

I tend to enjoy existential thoughts and ideas, and taking problems sincerely and staring at them head on. Adding in fluff to explain away realities, isn't the preferred way I would want to find answers.

Though, even when I agree with the usefulness of being more clear-headed about situations we face in reality, the more I thought about this example you used, and how you dismissed the various ways to 'explain away' the situation, I got to thinking about why I also don't find your comparison compelling.

Because, as you point out with regard to Camus, every ac... (read more)

Hello Unreal,

this was surprisingly relatable, despite us taking very different paths to reach similar conclusions. 

The uncompromised mind is something I have sincerely delved into for a good while, and also the part where you describe discarding 'everything', is quite relaxing. 

Some of your views seem complimentary, and some seem like none of us can be in the right, (or both, but just slightly).

My motivation was and never has been AI, though, and if that is a fixed point to you, maybe we can find out how/why we see it differently? I find the focu... (read more)

For a while I've been thinking about writing a continuation to the "Is there something fundamentally wrong with the Universe?" question. I've read through the answers, and it isn't that hard to build upon them and further investigate the issue. But something is seriously holding me back, and I'm not quite confident I know perfectly what it is. 

Part of it is that I don't see the comments as that challenging to refute, in many ways. There are loopholes, contradictions and incoherence. At the same time, I don't know the answer either. 

The obvious pr... (read more)

Hello, 

I did enjoy the dialogues I've read so far, and would like to join one. 

I tend to read a lot of different things, and as such am much better at drawing parallels and seeing associative links between different concepts or structures of thought, than delving into one in particular. This is useful for finding novel solutions to problems that are almost impossible to solve with a hammer - but you might have more luck with if you use a pair of scissors

It is hard to know if the issue is one that is best solved with a hammer or with something els... (read more)

Yes, it is true, but being King doesn't grant him omnipotence. The great rewards are guarded by someone, tallied by another, taxed by a third, available to some - similar to the great penalties. He is trusting in his power as king that his subjects will follow his every whim - when:

Who could he trust, when anyone around him might scheme for his throne? 

The King trusts his subjects Directly by asking them to do things for him directly, trusts them indirectly by believing his given role as "King" is enough for them to follow this squandering of resource... (read more)

Hello Jay Bailey,

Thanks for your reply. Yes, I seem to have overcomplicated the point made in this post by adding the system-lens to this situation. It isn't irrelevant, it is simply besides the point for Alice and Bob.

The goal I am focusing on is a 'system overhaul' not a concrete example like this.

I was also reminded of how detrimental the confrontational tone and haughtiness by Alice and the lack of clarity and self-understanding of Bob is for learning, change and understanding. How it creates a loop where the interaction itself doesn't seem to bring ei... (read more)

Hello Firinn,

Thanks for the linked post, it was right on the money.

I see that I look at market-economy as a problem by itself, but I haven't really thought about money from a less idealistic point of view.

It is really hard to come to terms with the argument he makes, when the system money operates under is so flawed.

But maybe it is more of a general point. In the instance between Alice and Bob, they might not see or have the ability to try to change the system itself, and under those circumstances I have missed the point.

Again, thanks for the post.

Kindly, Caerulea-Lawrence

Hello Firinn, 

I can relate to this post, even when I was never part of the EA-movement. When I was younger, I did join a climate-organization, and also had an account on kiva.org. And I would say there was a lot of guilt and confusion around my actions at that point, whilst simultaneously trying to do a lot of 'better than'-actions. 

Your post is very extensive, and as such I find myself engaged by just reading one of the external links and the post itself. Therefore, my comment isn't really a comment to the whole post, but sees the post through o... (read more)

Hello again ymeskhout,

looking at the answers you have given to people, and the comments I have got on my own reply to this post, I was wondering if I read your post in a specific light, and went through it more in-depth.

You write in your comment that "[...]My post was strictly about "giving advice to victims" and the pushback you're giving invokes all these collateral issues I never argued in favor of."

and in a later comment 
"The parallels between bike theft and rape are obviously not going to perfectly match, nor should we expect them to. My point he... (read more)

Thanks for the answer,

Still, I know I read somewhere about intuitives using a lot of their energy on reflection, and so I gathered that that kind of dual-action might explain part of the reason why someone would talk about 'qualia' as something you are 'aware' of as it happens.
I mean, if most of one's energy is focused on a process not directly visible/tangible to one's 'sense perception', I don't see why people wouldn't feel that there was something separate from their sense perception alone. Whereas with sensors, and it being flipped, it seems more reaso... (read more)

Thanks,

I guess if I were there, I guess I would have wanted to connect what you talked about to specific terms that might further clarify what kind of solution(s) you were looking for. Or, in plain English, to ask which of these needs-categories (NVC-list page 3&4) would best fit what you wanted to talk about. 

I mean, you are already meeting a lot of needs, but if you go back to the start, and you ask Which of these categories of needs best fit what you feel right now - It might have served as a decent anchor point both of you could have used to f... (read more)

Hello again, 

Thanks for your reply, and I'm happy to agree with the general direction of what you wrote, and add some odd points of mine as well.

There is one very positive thing I see in being able to hold these thoughts, concepts and ideas. In many instances, like the ones we are discussing here in this post, there is no correct answer for everyone, or even you. But, if you can hold the various views, paradoxes and abstract ideas in your mind, you can still choose a lot of useful and enriching tentative positions to give rise to a more creative, hea... (read more)

Hello Said!

You are my commenting senior, and I understand you want a high standard - Still, I'm very positive that intimate relationships and acquaintances are the number1 group of perpetrators, and that my argument is a valid one - So I'm content with my level of research in the context of this post. I understand if you might disagree with my level of skill, but I hope you can have some leniency.

In the future, I might want to rise to a different level of discernment. To check the small details more, and try to achieve the level of Commentator Enlightenmen... (read more)

Hi Rafael Harth,

I did remember reading, Why it's so hard to talk about Consciousness, and shrinking back from the conflict that you wrote as an example of how the two camps usually interact.

Reading this review was interesting. I do feel like I wouldn't necessarily want to read the book, but reading this was worth it. I also drew a parallel between the contentious point about consciousness, and the Typical Mind/psych Fallacy (Generalizing from One Example - by Scott Alexander here on LW).  

One connection I see is that, similar to the Color Phi phenomen... (read more)

Hello Adam Zerner,

I believe it is very useful to look at voting through both frameworks, and agree that this is an important aspect to look at. Thanks for deciding to write your concerns in this post.

Downvoting through the lens of stictly 'wanting to see more/less of something', to me, makes it hard to differentiate a response between the functional aspect of writing, and the emotional. Many a post would be much more fulfilling for the posters with differing levels of emotional concerns, if they were accurately and feeling-y addressed - preferably maybe ev... (read more)

Hello habryka and kave,

I felt a bit uplifted from reading this, and I would love to see more of this on LW. This is more of a direct response to a problem - and so you are not only 'looking' at the problem, but your action is a good approach at solving it.

I do have some views that could be of use, but I mean, I wasn't in this dialogue, you didn't invite me and so being a 'backseat participant' feels a tad odd. Conversations of this kind are more situational in my experience, and so even when you post it - I just assume that the Form and the Content might b... (read more)

Hello again StartAtTheEnd,

Thanks for your reflection. I liked reading it.

I'll try to reflect with you here. It might look like I disagree with you here, but I am mostly just bouncing off what you wrote and adding in different thoughts I have myself.
 

"The world is objectively flawed, it's not just my own opinion, and now I'm suffering the gap between this flawed state and the goal state.
 

* You notice that your system reacts by fearing insults similarly to tigers, you notice that your 'body' never gets 'satisfied' and that each time you get somethi... (read more)

Hello AI-doom,  

Isn't there a paradox here, though?  

If an AI destroys everything to guarantee an ideal outcome - wouldn't it want to make sure that it is successful? But how is it going to make sure that everything is destroyed? Is it going to not destroy itself? Well, then there is still something left that might malfunction or create this outcome, which is itself. So does it destroy itself simultaneously as it destroys the universe, or afterward? Maybe it is a failure of imagination on my part, but it seems a bit paradoxical.

Well, of course it... (read more)

Hello ymeskhout,

If you look at the Sexual Assault Statistics, you see that 51% of rapes happen in intimate relationships, and 41% by an acquaintance. 
As such, the reasonable thing to assume in your case, if we are to draw parallels, is that the one doing the stealing, was another person highly interested in bikes, wheels and adjustments... In other words, one of your in-group friends. Or, someone in your family. Both with easier "legitimate" access to things like your key, your habits or your number-code.
You say there was nothing sadistic about the in... (read more)

Hello Wei Dai,

Something that might be useful to a certain degree might be to see it through the lens of Collective Intelligence.
Or simply that the sum is greater than the value of the individual parts, and also that we can synch our efforts together, directly or indirectly, with the people around us. A recent BBC reel explores this as well. 

Like you say, as you 'move on', you leave many behind. - But at least you will feel massively more vital and see an increase in growth if you have someone that enhances your learning directly through "being on the ... (read more)

Some reflection around the question I posted some days ago: "Is there something fundamentally wrong with the Universe?". I'm still not sure if it helped that much in changing things with regard to writing something I care about, but it still feels like some things have landed a bit more.

The different sides to an issue are usually interconnected, to me, just one of many. Some might be much harder to acknowledge and understand, but they are all valid, to a degree.  What I dislike is usually that different sides do not communicate effectively, efficientl... (read more)

I am grateful you say that, Ratios. 

Some things I just let myself struggle with - like finding the right food to eat, or how to become more healthy, or how to just be a bit more content, or allow discontent without reacting too much etc. I do see those concerns as connected to the abstract. They fit together - but as of now, they aren't really balanced of course, but yeah, I hope I find more people to share this journey with, and I wish you well too. See you around. 

Caerulea :)

Hello again,

the only system I am aware of in which that is possible, as of now, would be my own body... Still, what would be an "improvement to the system performance" is also a matter of conviction, values and goals, or am I not understanding it correctly?

Since you believe that we are going to get an unqualified utopia, or go extinct, with very little probability on "an eternal hellscape", how do you view people that disagree with you? When I look at both sides of that equation, one part of it can be different probabilities assigned to 'terribleness', but... (read more)

Hello StartAtTheEnd,

yeah, you seem to nail many of the concerns around this on its head. At the same time, I wonder if your prior here is a bit skewed heavily towards one specific side? I assume it is just one point of view, but I'm just gonna lean into it nonetheless. 

Yes, humans tend to create problems when things get too 'quiet', but wouldn't it be more correct to assume that this is a consequence of things like the fact that if the forest was quiet, it meant danger? That our bodies freak out because of stimulus deprivation; is that an inherent, ax... (read more)

Hello Lyrongolem,

that is a brilliant point, and an understandable concern indeed. I hadn't heard about the word 'theodicy' before, but I'll definitely try to remember it now. 

I see your point. If the Universe is fundamentally fair, and it is inherently possible to change one's fate and situation with effort/will alone, it becomes a moot point to 'blame' someone or something else. 

I now see the link you made in your first comment much better, 

Even though I believe your comment is great, I'll respect your wish of course. I'll send you a message now.

Hello Mitchell_Porter,

thanks for the contrast and history to this issue. To transcend suffering or to work around it... I might take a look at that, to see if they had a fruitful conversation about it.

Hm, it is of course possible to argue that relinquishing the control could somehow benefit the greater whole - but how would you strike a balance between the positivity in transhumanism, and the gloom in the ai doomers. 

The optimism about A.I. capabilities might not be overestimated, but why the focus to create a Beyond-human technological "solution" to ... (read more)

Hello Ratios,

I did read the Ecclesiastes a lot growing up, as well as the Proverbs. (From the old testament in the bible) In many ways I can understand and relate to the points of Salomon. There is a lot of rest in the fact that things can be beyond our immediate control. Even when we can try to change certain things, we don't use unnecessary amounts of force or will to MAKE IT FIT! 

With regard to health, self-compassion, receiving and understanding compassion is the way I see beyond the scary depths of For with much wisdom comes much sorrow, and as k... (read more)

I mean, their chances, whatever they may be, would sure get worse if they stopped running credit/blame-assignment algorithms on the systems under their control in order to incrementally improve their efficiency and competitiveness, and instead sat around like rocks assigning it all to the Primal Mover, waiting to die?
 

Well, I do not argue that the approach I chose Could be seen as some kind of "giving up" mentality, but that also requires you to read that into it. But isn't it also quite the leap to claim that assigning systematically too much respons... (read more)

I wasn't expecting this response from you. Thank you, I am truly grateful for you sharing this with me. It is definitely a gift I will treasure, and it is also something I can work with more easily. 

I am more of an intuitive person. Reading psychology, sociology, social sciences and experimental ideas/theories, and a lot of fiction and mind-boggling film. I am prone to reflecting, and delving into introspection, self-understanding and communication, societal and relational understandings. I haven't read that much, but I have talked and delved deep int... (read more)

Congrats ;) Lyrongolem on your first comment,

And since this is quite the extensive response, and by no means rude or badly written, let me first say thanks. :) Glad you wanted to engage and get into this with me and others here. 

I guess I feel a bit uplifted from reading your comment, even when, technically, you aren't really tackling my position head on ^ ^. It is very engaging, like a good song, a speech or something. Simple, direct examples, and a language that is easy to follow, with relatable arguments and views. A great start I would wager.

I sti... (read more)

Thank you Ratios, 

didn't expect these concepts to be named here, but yes, I see them as very relevant in this context. Intuitively Negative Utilitarianism in particular. It doesn't seem much of a stretch to argue that things are already way beyond the threshold, and that it is too late to salvage the situation?

If you have more to add in this context, I would be interested to know more. To look at the issue directly feels very taxing and draining indeed, and the experience I have had with talking with a misanthrope, did convince me that they were able to look at parts of existence that I at that point really disliked getting close to.

Kindly,
Caerulea-Lawrence 

Hello again, 

This is a question, and I gave it a certain spin - it is not the entirety of my opinion or view on the matter; and as such I welcome your response. 
Yes, I agree. There are important choices to be made, I'm not denying it. 

Well, if everyone is influencing the Universe, do you believe that our actions have a certain benevolent direction in mind? To include everyone's choices in the way the Universe is, only illustrates the problem further, does it not? If you look at the humans alive, and their choices, will, intention and aspirations - it is one messed up chaotic mix, or do you see something different?

Kindly,
Caerulea-Lawrence

Hello shminux,

I can at least take responsibility for my hunger, if nothing else. Bacteria, not so much. I wash my hands every day, but I'm not sure if it makes the slightest difference. 
Is there still hope for me?

Jokingly,
Caerulea-Lawrence

 

Hello AnthonyC, 

Yes, your view is consistent with your arguments, and it makes perfect sense, but it also seems to me that it partly dismisses the intention with my question.

We are humans, we are made of matter and energy, we feel and we evaluate. 
Yes, you can argue, correctly I assume, the Universe isn't inherently moral, and to disagree with the spin I put to the question, but I am asking the Mind-you, not the Universe, how you feel, evaluate and discern this question, and the direct consequences those laws have in your life.

If you believe it i... (read more)

Hello Thane Ruthenis,

But in the meantime, it still makes sense to assign blame to the things we can affect at the current moment, instead of prematurely skipping to the end.

Thank you for your comment. Reading it, I want to ask something. Since you are aware that the design is terrible, and there are no safeguards, and we have to use homemade solutions in a hostile environment, who are the humans that make things better? And how do you argue that the chances of them "winning" are somehow higher than of those that follow the natural incentives of the Univers... (read more)

Hello Richard_Kennaway,

Hm, maybe you could elaborate on how these two posts answer my question, or why you posted them here as a comment? I can see possible links, but I am not sure what it is. 

Kindly,
Caerulea-Lawrence

Hello Perhaps, 

In a way, you are deftly eluding the issue at hand, by implying we should be thankful, and possibly, get our shit together ourselves. 

You say that none of the systemic problems faced by humans today are caused by the universe, but that is making the opposite claim of the one I have made in my question, and so you aren't tackling the issue with the given rules, you seem to ignore them to give an answer that is right given Your arguments. 

It isn't that I don't see your points, simply that they skip mine, and as such it oversimplifies the issue. If you could include what I wrote to how you answer, I would appreciate it.

Caerulea-Lawrence

Hello AnthonyC,

thanks for your thoughtful reply. 

With regard to healthy, I do believe I understand what you mean. I want a balance between the different ways of seeing the world, and this question is by no means an expression of the totality of existence. Still, I find it important, to see if I can hold that which is difficult a bit more gently.

I'll take your points in order:

I can see this point, but of the ones you make, I wonder if this is the one it is easiest for me to see a counter to. Furthermore, since we 'are' also part of the universe, I woul... (read more)

Hi again,

It is good to hear you say that you don't experience it that way, and I may be overly focused on many subtle and incredible minor emotional nuances, many of which probably aren't really relevant in our specific interaction anyway. Good to know that those are overshadowed by the positive valence, so I'll just focus less on that.

Yes, I agree with you on the differentiation. Especially to me, the tell-tale signs have been minor changes in behavior, more than distinct or detectable emotional sensations. 

If I follow the logic I have proposed so fa... (read more)

Hello again, 

thanks for you reply, and to answer the last part first - if you are referring to some specific function, than that might be the case, and some of what I say might not apply.

I'm not saying you are ignoring your emotions. The point I am trying to get across is how little awareness I, without missing that specific functionality you talk about, have of how emotions feel. Or even what kinds of emotions it is possible to feel. So even when we aren't intentionally ignoring them, we might still be unable to see them. Similarly to how people that... (read more)

Hello RomanHauksson,

speaking of epistemics, what is it that you actually Feel in response to what is written? I mean, your analogy about "uncomfortable in a way I can't put into words, like the feeling one gets when they look at a liminal photograph", seems vaguely reminiscence of the kind of language you are uncomfortable with, does it not? 

If I would "translate" the first paragraph from Game B, I believe it means something like this:

"We have this vague sense built upon various experiences that rapid growth in technology doesn't seem to make the worl... (read more)

For a while I've been wanting to write about something I care about. The complex, gritty, but also highly valuable and interesting journey of introspection, getting to know new sides of myself, and to increase the threshold for and the communicative limit for my Cognitive Functions.

My trouble is that I always seem to get stuck at trying to neatly fold everything together, when in my daily life, it is the interwoven interconnectedness that Is the essence of the process and my life. The different 'modes' of being are wreathed together, and usually led by the... (read more)

Hello Johannes,

I have some reflections around this that you might, or might not find interesting. The reason I wanted to comment is that I wanted to write about some experiences in a fitting context, and this seemed a good match. Here goes.

My frame of thinking takes reference from MBTI, or more specific the concept of cognitive functions - or how I see it, small people in my brain, that live really different lives. 

Optimizing for information is something I care about myself, and I relate it to my Ti (Introverted thinking), and since my partner has a l... (read more)

Hello rogersbacon and others,

This comment might be a bit on the bleak side, so let me know how it lands. Asking meta-questions can lead to scary thoughts and feelings, as what was before a concrete wall of irreconcilable dualities, might open its doors if you are able and willing to push them open - and leave some innocence and repression behind.

"We shall here define progress as the increasing control of the environment by life."
 

I guess I just don’t think reality or humanity is that simple and that reducing the richness and complexity of

I enjoyed reading this post, and felt some kind of irritation as well. When I read the last line; "Inspired by...": I wrongfully assumed it was Sisyphus, as when I read this, it reminded me of his plight. I mean, which ever way one goes about "pleasing" the universe, it isn't really a choice? 

...“No”, says the grasshopper. “It was the dreamtime, and the world was young. The stars were bright and the galaxies were empty. I chose to spend my resources producing laughter and love, and gave little thought to the race to spread and to harvest. Now we are i

Hello,

My partner and I have for a good while used a similar approach, and so I do generally agree. I thought I would also add some of my thoughts on where it hasn't quite worked as planned, or where we stumbled across limitations.

We have both experienced various degrees of trauma, including attachment-trauma, and there seems to be some aspects that are more easily "healed" than others. And it makes sense that the more extensive the trauma(s), the more issues crop up. For example, picturing a loving mother; I do not picture loving as in unconditionally, but... (read more)

Hello Ruby,

thanks for the reply. I'm working on a follow-up piece to this, but it is still in the oven. I am still thankful for the response. A town hall... is a much more educated guess than mine. I would love for the mission to be more specific on the how's, but you are already working on it, which I appreciate.

I can imagine that some Rationalist people leaving, might also be a natural conclusion of crafting a space a certain way. Some of the ideas I have might be more for those on the frontiers, but it should also work for others as well. And are more f... (read more)