All of catch223's Comments + Replies

I'm not sure if I'm totally missing your point, or if you're making a point that's a distinction without a difference.

In Army basic training, there are two standards one must meet:

  1. height/weight, adjusted for age and gender
  2. PT test, which consists of push-ups, sit-ups, and a 2-mile run, with scoring adjusted for age and gender

Either one will get you chaptered out of the Army within certain timeframes. There is a lot of fine print for specific situations (basic training has some extra cushion), but that's the ground truth. These same principles apply to ... (read more)

0Decius
No individual cares about anything other than the procedures. Thus, the organization as a whole cares only about the procedures. The behavior is similar /with the procedures that exist/ to caring about fitness, but there is also a procedure to change procedure. If the organization cared about fitness, the procedure to change the height/weight standards would be based on fitness. As it is, it is more based on politics. Therefore I conclude that the Army cares more about politics and procedures than fitness, and any behavior that looks like caring about fitness is incidental to their actual values.

As someone who's done the whole military thing (am I alone?), I agree with your view that most members of the rationalsphere would struggle immensely in bootcamp, both in turns of physicality and culture (I'm referring mostly to the Army and Marines here, which focus on actual combat training vs. the Air Force and Navy that don't).

I totally agree that you would have 0 problems (other than patience with the stupid parts) as you have a high degree of physical ability, emotional resilience, and general cognitive ability. You would very likely excel. I could ... (read more)

Bootcamp (i.e. the military) cares very much about both losing sufficient weight to meet the standard as well as the ability to perform at a basic level of physical fitness. The different U.S. military services have differing standards, but the general requirements are all comparable.

In an environment where the food supply is tightly controlled and there is constant movement, people tend to lose a lot of weight quite rapidly.

However, if you don't meet the body proportion standards after a certain time, you will be separated from the military.

0Decius
Part of the program is separating people who don't lose weight. That doesn't mean they care about the height/weight, only that the next box is 'process for separation'. There's not a lot other than adherence to procedure that most of the military actually does care about.

I'm just failing at being funny and probably succeeding at being cruel in reinforcing your recent in-person tendency to confuse the two laws (because it was hilarious in context, and I'm terrible).

Thanks for writing down the gears concept in detail.

1Valentine
Haha! I didn't know who you were from your username. No cruelty received!

Did you possibly mean to link to Godwin's Law instead of Goodhart's Law?

4Valentine
Um… no? I'm pretty sure I mean to talk about optimizing for metrics, not about Hitler. Am I missing something?