All of CitizenTen's Comments + Replies

Short of "a foreign power or going bankrupt."  Germany was forced to pay for all damages that occurred during WW1.  They were pretty bankrupt as countries go.  And then the great depression happened.  So I think Germany counts as democratic backsliding on account of "going bankrupt."  And it doesn't claim all democracies.  Just democracies that reach a large enough numbers of keys.

4Ege Erdil
I don't have a source for this claim off the top of my head, but I've previously read that Germany was actually a net beneficiary of international financial transactions in the 1920s. Essentially, the flow of funds went like this: * Germany paid war reparations to the UK and France. * The UK and France paid off their war debts to the United States. * The United States made loans to Germany, and Germany defaulted on a good fraction of them. It would be nice if someone could check whether this is true or not, but the impression I got from reading the history here is that the role of war reparations in causing fiscal problems for Germany was inflated by propaganda, especially by German politicians who tried to blackmail the Allies into lowering the amount of reparations to be paid by raising the specter of economic collapse in Germany.
2Garrett Baker
Oh yeah, good point about Germany. I’m still pretty skeptical about the claim. Even if the claim ended up being true, I’d be worried its just because democracy is a pretty new concept, so we just don’t have as much data as we’d like. But far less worried it’d be non predictive as I am now. The particular argument why democracies are so stable does not seem robust to the population wrongly believing a dictatorship would be better in their interests than the current situation. Voters can be arbitrarily wrong when they aren’t able to see the effects of their actions and then re-vote.

    I notice that you cite Freedom House, and Richard Hanania goes into why that NGO in particular is pretty institutionally captured and a biased source.  Citing Freedom house is akin to circular reasoning or is too close for comfort with regards to the question of "Democracy". (link) Also, for better or worse every institution of the US is very liberal, including the government (link) so it's hard to imagine how in any real sense the US could become an actual right wing dictatorship. 

   Furthermore,"The Dictator's Handbook" ... (read more)

France had a military coup in 1958 followed by 6 months of dictatorship. What threshold had France not passed in 1958 to not count as a full democracy? Does the Dictator's Handbook actually say this?

The relevant section of The Dictator's Handbook is the following

Given the complexity of the trade-off between declining private rewards and increased societal rewards, it is useful to look at a simple graphical illustration, which, although based on specific numbers, reinforces the relationships highlighted throughout this book. Imagine a country of 100 people that initially has a government with two people in the winning coalition. With so few essentials and so many interchangeables, taxes will be high, people won’t work very hard, productivity will be lo

... (read more)

Was extremely enjoyable.  Any plans for more?    

3TurnTrout
Thank you! I want to write more, but don't currently have the macro-level fiction writing skills (e.g. plotting) to do the rest at the moment. I'll respond to this comment if and when I continue the story.

Huh.  I found your forecasting newsletter via LessWrong, and then subscribed to the substack's RSS feed?  Which probably made me less likely to open it/see it in LessWrong?  Dunno.  Maybe your LessWrong traffic moved to substack?  (sample size=1)    

Yeah.  Why I said "generally."  Obviously if you emulate Stalin bad things will happen.  Slightly off topic but I'd say those leader's weren't "unconstrained" and revealed something about human nature, but were constrained as any ruler and had to follow the Dictator's Handbook to stay in power.  

1SarahNibs
It is very unclear that generally humans are unlike Stalin. Maybe! But most humans have far too little power to reveal their preferences-with-lots-of-power. And we seem to have sayings like "power corrupts", but it's not at all clear to me whether power corrupts, only the corrupt can gain power, or power simply reveals.
Answer by CitizenTen30

Move to New Hampshire.  Join the Free State Project.  I'm only slightly kidding.  For national politics, a huge amount of people dedicate ginormous amounts of attention too it and because of that there's not much slack for an individual person to affect much.  Local politics on the other hand, people barely care about.  Pull the rope sideways and all that. (https://www.overcomingbias.com/2019/03/tug-sideways.html)   Apparently, something like 3000 libertarians have been able to accomplish all this:  https://twitter.com/Fr... (read more)

CitizenTenΩ010

Silly question warning. 

 

You think that when an AI performs a bad action, (say remove the diamond) the AI has to have knowledge that the diamond is in fact no longer there.  Even when the camera shows the diamond is (falsely) there and the human confirms that the diamond is there. 

You call this ELK

You want the human to have access to this knowledge, as this is useful to choosing decisions that the human wants.

This is hard.  So you have people propose how to do this.  

And then people try to explain why that strategy wouldn't wo... (read more)

3Ajeya Cotra
This broadly seems right. Some details: * The "explain why that strategy wouldn't work" step specifically takes the form of "describing a way the world could be where that strategy demonstrably doesn't work" (rather than more heuristic arguments). * Once we have a proposal where we try really hard to come up with situations where it could demonstrably fail, and can't think of any, we will probably need to do lots of empirical work to figure out if we can implement it and if it actually works in practice. But we hope that this exercise will teach us a lot about the nature of the empirical work we'll need to do, as well as providing more confidence that the strategy will generalize beyond what we are able to test in practice. (For example, ELK was highlighted as a problem in the first place after ARC researchers thought a lot about possible failure modes of iterated amplification.)

Continuing with the pattern, our next meetup would be Saturday, Nov 13. @Connor /CitizenTen won't be able to make it, so Zach offered to help coordinate. We'll meet at the same place as last time: Bird Park (here, at least initially: https://what3words.com/judge.salad.older) and the same time: 1pm PT. 

Separately, Zach volunteered to help put together a small activity to try to encourage interesting conversations. We can pilot it at this next meetup, if there's interest. (Like any pilot, we can bail on it if it doesn't seem to be working.) Elevator pit... (read more)

Hmmm... It seems that someone has thought of doing the exact same thing? Though considering the digging I had to go to find it, it should be more prominent. 

 https://wiki.lesswrong.com/images/c/ca/How_to_Run_a_Successful_Less_Wrong_Meetup_Group.pdf 

6mingyuan
I mentioned this in my sequence intro, but to restate it here: That guide is nine years old, and things have changed a fair amount in the past decade; it's also difficult to navigate. Also, you might notice that the advice on choosing a venue covers less than one whole page; I thought there was room for an updated guide that's also more thorough and data-informed.

On the having a shoulder Duncan, I explicitly tried to do this upon listening to you being interviewed by Spencer Greenberg.  Sadly, digital Duncan doesn't exist in large enough quantities to emulated.  So for those of us that don't happen to live (I assume) in the Bay Area, can Duncan increase how many podcast or video's he's on?  Having a shoulder Duncan sounds really useful to a large number of people you interact with and enlarging that pool purposely seems to be a pretty good idea. Food for thought?

My best talk

My longest talk

My Harvard talk

My badly-in-need-of-updating website which happens to have a "writing" tab F U L L of stuff

You can find a couple others on Youtube by searching "Duncan Sabien."

Also you can get people to invite me to podcasts and I'll often say yes. =P

Thanks for the help! Now let's just hope that no one reads it as 8 pm and decides that's the time!

No. For whatever reason, on the backend it says 1:00 pm.  It just says GMT and either you can't change that, or I haven't found out how.  (So it's at 1 pm, a more sane time )

2mingyuan
I'm not a dev so I'm not sure, but I think the site takes your location info, and if you have location access turned off, it defaults to GMT. FYI, you can still set the correct time for the event by converting between time zones — e.g. since GMT is 7 hours ahead of PDT, you would set the event to be at 8pm, and then it would display the correct time for people in PDT. (I have to do this all the time when I post events that are in different countries. Annoying, but I guess time zones are hard.) In the meantime I've fixed it for you :)

Had an awesome meetup.  If anyone wanted to meet but just didn't get the chance, you're welcome to join the newly minted discord server: https://discord.gg/4A4qHh52Ep

Host was transferred to me.  Bird park and same time, yadda, yadda.  Nothing should change. See you there! 

All set.  I got transferred to host.  Nothing should change.  Though tbh, it shouldn't matter much.  It's mainly just a shelling point.  I'm sure even if Jessie did nothing someone would show up.  But yeah.  See you there!

Hey! Connor here. I’ll be willing to host if you really can’t. Just send me all the “host” information I should know about and thing such as that. Mainly just private message me and we’ll go from there. (either through less wrong or connordpitts@gmail.com) Cheers!

1scarcegreengrass
What's the status of this meetip, CitizenTen? Did you hear back?

Could you please post this on Fanfiction.net, AO3, or cross-posted to r/rational or r/hpmor?  I'm really enjoying this story but its hard to get notified when you post a new update.  Also, this is great and deserves more eyeballs on it.

6habryka
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