All of dmfdmf's Comments + Replies

0timtyler
Right - but there's no collapse in the MWI. Everything remains in superposition forever - thus the "many worlds".
6Eliezer Yudkowsky
Just read the Less Wrong sequence on QM. All the answers to your questions may be found there. I consider myself an aspiring disciple of Jaynes, probably as versed as any living human being in the ways of the Mind Projection Fallacy, and MWI is the version of QM which does not have such difficulties. You've certainly arrived at the correct website to find the answers that you in particular seek, fellow Bayesian and Jaynesian; but you're being voted down because you haven't read the existing material.
1Cyan
Read this, and then come back and tell us where the reasoning requires PoC.

Of course my motives are irrelevant here but for the record I am trying to understand epistomology and its application to my self and, ultimately to AI. How about you, what are your motives?

Not knowing the exact details of where the PoC flaw is in QM is not a devastating criticism of my point, though your tone seems to suggest that you think it is. Why does the USPTO no longer accept applications for perpetual motion machines? Because it violates the first and/or second laws of thermo, no need to dig further into the details. This is just how principles w... (read more)

1JGWeissman
What principle do you believe that MWI is violating that is analogous to a perpetual motion machine violating conservation of energy? In the case of the perpetual motion machine, it is easy to see that the described system violates energy conservation, because you can compare the energy in the system at different times. From this global violation, one can deduce that there was a mistake somewhere in the calculations that predicted it for a system that follows the physical laws that imply conservation of energy. So, what is the global problem with MWI that leads you to believe that it has a PoC flaw?
0timtyler
Probably mostly to learn things - though you would have to consult with my shrink for more details. Of course I'm not doing that in this thread - I guess that, here I'm trying to help you out on this issue while showing that I know what I'm talking about. Maybe someday, someone can return the favour - if they see me talking nonsense. Or maybe it's just a case of: http://mohel.dk/grafik/andet/Someone_Is_Wrong_On_The_Internet.jpg Jaynes' criticism doesn't apply to the MWI. The MWI doesn't involve probabilities - it's a deterministic theory: http://www.hedweb.com/manworld.htm#deterministic
7Cyan
If you can't tell us why Primacy of Consciousness is necessary for MWI, then we have no grounds for doubting MWI on the basis of your argument. It's like saying that X is a perpetual motion machine and therefore impossible, and then when asked in what way is X a perpetual motion machine, replying that it's implicitly a perpetual motion machine and you can't relate the exact details.

Its not an explicit form of Primacy of Consciousness like prayer or wishing. Its implicit in QM and its basic premises. One example of an implicit form of PoC is to project properties or aspects of consciousness onto reality and treating them as metaphysical and not epistemological factors. I think the ancient philosophers got hung up on this when debating whether a color like "red" was in the object or subject. This went round and round for a few hundred years until someone pointed out that its both (form/object distinction).

Jaynes covers simi... (read more)

2Douglas_Knight
you mean like collapse?
0timtyler
So: you know all about the mind projection fallacy - but don't seem to be able to find a coherent way to link it to the MWI, even though you seem to want to do that. I don't know what your motives are - and so don't see the point.

Am I missing something here? EY and SA were discussing the advance of computer technology, the end of Moore's rule-of-thumb, quantum computing, BIg Blue, etc. It seems to me that AI is an epistemological problem not an issue of more computing power. Getting Big Blue to go down all the possible branches is not really intelligence at all. Don't we need a theory of knowledge first? I'm new here so this has probably already been discussed but what about freewill? How do AI researchers address that issue?

I'm with SA on the MWI of QM. I think EY is throwing ... (read more)

2timtyler
Neither consciousness nor mind are primary in the MWI - so I can't see where you are getting that from.