All of devansh's Comments + Replies

Does buying shorter-term OTM derivatives each year not work here?

devansh-1-16

Strong downvoted. This seems naively useful but knowing someone had a CRM for our friendship would make me feel quite uncomfortable, objectified, and annoyed, and I would likely stop being friends with that person, and I'm confident that the majority of (most?) people who aren't pretty rationalist would feel similarly.

4Severin T. Seehrich
I actually told the most hippie human on my list (spending months on rainbow gatherings-level hippie) that she's on it. To my surprise, she felt unambiguously flattered. Seems like the people who know me trust that I can be intentional without being objectifying. :)
3pjeby
I expect business and sales people would mostly not feel similarly, though to be fair it's uncommon for business friendships/acquaintances to reach "best friend" or better status. The vibe of somebody putting you in a CRM to stay in touch without any direct/immediate monetary benefit is like, "oh, how thoughtful of you / props for being organized / I should really be doing that". Anyway, the important question isn't how most people would feel, it's how one's desired friends in particular would feel. And many people might feel things like "honored this busy person with lots of friends wants to upgrade our friendship and is taking action to make sure it happens -- how awesome".
3wachichornia
There’s an app called garden where you enter the name of the people you care about and how often you want to talk to them: once a week, a month etc. I started using it and being open to people about it. A few mentioned it sounded a bit weird but otherwise I’ve gotten overwhelmingly positive feedback and I’m staying in touch regularly with the people I care about! The “what I get/what they get from me” columns from this Dunbar exercise are a bit too much for me though.
8Elizabeth
Seems pretty likely those people are bad fits for  Severin whether or not they actually make the spreadsheet. 

(I promised I'd publish this last night no matter what state it was in, and then didn't get very far before the deadline. I will go back and edit and improve it later.)

 

I feel like I keep, over and over, hearing a complaint from people who get most of their information about college admissions from WhatsApp groups or their parents’ friends or a certain extraordinarily pervasive subreddit (you all know what I’m talking about). Something like “College admissions is ridiculous! Look at this person, who was top of his math class and took 10 AP classes and... (read more)

devansh7-2

Epistemic Status: Rant. Very rapidly written and upon reflection uncertain if I fully endorse; Cunningham’s Law says that this is the best way to get good takes quickly.

 

Rationalists should win. If you have contorted yourself into alternative decision theories that leave you vulnerable to Roko's Basilisk or whatever, and normal CDT or whatever actual humans implement in real life wouldn't leave you vulnerable to stuff like this, then you have failed and you need to go back to trying to be a normal person using normal decision procedures instead of mat... (read more)

1AprilSR
CDT gives into blackmail (such as the basilisk), whereas timeless decision theories do not.
3JBlack
This statement is in the form of a conditional statement with a premise that I think is almost entirely false, which makes it technically (vacuously) true but not useful. Do you believe that the premise is substantially true?
1Noosphere89
IMO, I don't agree with this take, since I think a common problem here is people falsely believe they wouldn't fall for ChatGPT or some other nonsense. In general people way overrate how well they would do in this situation.

Yeah, this is basically the thing I'm terrified about. If someone has been convinced of AI risk with arguments which do not track truth, then I find it incredibly hard to believe that they'd ever be able to contribute useful alignment research, not to mention the general fact that if you recruit using techniques that select for people with bad epistemics you will end up with a community with shitty epistemics and wonder what went wrong.

Cool, I feel a lot more comfortable with your elaboration; thank you!

5peterslattery
Yeah, I agree with Kaj here. We do need to avoid the risk of using misleading or dishonest communication. However it also seems fine and important to optimise relevant communication variables (e.g., tone, topic, timing, concision, relevance etc) to maximise positive impact.
devansh4-7

I feel pretty scared by the tone and implication of this comment. I'm extremely worried about selecting our arguments here for truth instead of for convincingness, and mentioning a type of propaganda and then talking about how we should use it to make people listen to our arguments feels incredibly symmetric. If the strength our arguments for why AI risk is real do not hinge on whether or not those arguments are centrally true, we should burn them with fire.

9Kaj_Sotala
I get the concern and did wonder for a bit whether to include the second paragraph. But I also never suggested saying anything untrue, nor would I endorse saying anything that we couldn't fully stand behind. Also, if someone in the "AI is not an x-risk" camp were considering how to best convince me, I would endorse them using a similar technique of first introducing arguments that made maximal sense to me, and letting me think about their implications for a while before introducing arguments that led to conclusions I might otherwise reject before giving them a fair consideration. If everyone did that, then I would expect the most truthful arguments to win out. On grounds of truth, I would be more concerned about attempts to directly get people to reach a particular conclusion, than ones that just shape their attention to specific topics. Suggesting people what they might want to think about leaves open the possibility that you might be mistaken and that they might see this and reject your arguments. I think this is a more ethical stance than one that starts out from "how do we get them from where they are to accepting x-risk in one leap". (But I agree that the mention of propaganda gives the wrong impression - I'll edit that part out.)
-7Noosphere89

FWIW, for most people who are smart enough to get into MIT, it's reasonably trivial to get good grades in high school (I went to an unusually difficult high school, took the hardest possible courseload, and was able to shunt this to <5 hours of Actual Work a week / spent most of my class time doing more useful things). 

I have this sense people live in dark matter universes, where some social groups at uni talk to each other about the slog all the time, and some social groups talk about all the fun stuff they do with all of their extra the time. And these can both be true, just that they forget about each other. 

Like, me and my roommate at Uni both came from the same high-school. He had such an easy time he started doing math research in undergrad. I had a horrible time and barely graduated. There's both types. (I'd say he had a notably easier time at high-school tha... (read more)

3mingyuan
This seems wrong to me? Hard to say because it was so long ago but I imagine I spent at least 15 hours a week on homework. I went to a basically normal public high school, and while most of the work wasn't hard for me (varying between mindnumbingly easy and moderately challenging), there was just so much of it that it took a ton of time. Sure I wasn't 'working smart', and I was a perfectionist to an unreasonable level, and I cared too much about what my teachers thought of me, but I imagine none of those things are unusual for kids trying to get into good schools.
2cata
That's fair, I guess that's more like hundreds of hours and I was thinking of more typical students when I suggested thousands.
devansh170

Most people are disconnected from reality, most of the time. This is most noticeable to me when it manifests itself in scope insensitivity, but it appears in other ways too. In this case, you choosing to spend two hours walking to save costs is not a “keep in touch with reality” measure, it is a “lsusr is wasting his time” measure. Two hours of your time could be spent on things that really matter to you. Don’t quit Robotics Club if you like Robotics Club, but recognize that you do it for fuzzies and not for utils.

The average person in a developed country ... (read more)

Two hours of your time could be spent on things that really matter to you. 

It seemed like walking for two hours was time spent on something that really mattered to him?

then waste some of the hours in a day that you do have on a misguided idea of “staying in touch with reality,” you have failed to stay in touch with reality.

You use pretty strong language here, but AFAICT don't seem to really justify it. It's one thing to disagree with how useful it is for lsusr to spend time walking, quite another to call it a misguided idea that shows he's failing to stay in touch with reality.

Continuing the metaphor, what the authors are saying looks to some extent similar to stochastic gradient descent (which would be the real way you minimize the distance to finish in the maze analogy.)

2khafra
Or A*, which is a much more computationally efficient and deterministic way to minimize the distance to finish the maze, if you have an appropriate heuristic. I don't have an argument for it, but I feel like finding a good heuristic and leveraging it probably works very well as a generalizable strategy. 

The concept of "world war" doesn't need to mean "most of the world's population is involved in this war," not when nuclear weapons are at stake. A nuclear exchange between NATO and Russia is world-shifting in a way that a nuclear exchange between Pakistan and India is not. Calling nuclear war between major Western powers (which will almost certainly have devastating economic and physical effects on the entire world) a "world war" seems perfectly reasonable at that point, even if most of the world is not directly involved.

Every submission must be a 26-letter combination of random lowercase letters with no spaces. The entry that is closest to a randomly generated submission wins.

devansh*30

Gain = (Benefits − Costs) ∗ Probability

Would be more like gain = benefits*probability of those benefits - costs*probability of those costs, especially if there are failure modes that exist. I'd also try to avoid framing it as "benefits are almost unlimited while costs are finite;" while an IAL is great, the benefits of an IAL are just as finite as the costs are.

That being said, I think that if you can make an IAL that is exceptionally good on many dimensions and get enough interest/funding behind it, it would be an extremely worthwhile project.

1Long try
Thank you! I think that's a better formula. But I don't understand the phrase after "especially if..." Do you have 1st hunch about what kind of outside funding sources a project like this can more likely draw from?

Not a direct answer, so I'm leaving this as a comment, but the United States has for some time now been able to control the vast majority of its populace through military force if they wanted. The idea that citizens can stop a coup or revolt with guns seems relatively absurd considering the gap in "the weaponry citizens have, like rifles" and "the weaponry the military has, like tanks" although I'd be happy to have someone prove me wrong.

3Viliam
I am not an expert on military strategy, but it seems to me that you underestimate the difficulty of ruling a country, even a defeated one. The goal of the conquest is to gain resources. In current era, the most important resource are the people. You need to make them obey, without killing (too much of) them. You want them to do their jobs and then pay taxes to you. In other words, you want peace... perhaps after the short necessary conflict that puts you (again) on the top of the ladder. Can your military make sure that this happens? In a population largely without guns, a small group of soldiers can easily terrorize a small town. They can simply walk from house to house, beat up everyone who disobeys, and shoot a few who resist, to make an example out of them. They can make the workers go to the factory, and the factory owner pay the taxes. In a population with lots of rifles, a small group of soldiers would probably not survive the first day. Unless they keep walking the whole day in armor, or keep hiding in the tanks, once in a while a bullet will be fired unexpectedly from some hidden place, and some of those bullets will hit their targets. You could call more solders to that town, but that means they would be absent from some other town. You will be able to keep control over some places, but it will cost you more resources than those places will generate. As an example, this is not an exact analogy, but Switzerland remained neutral because giving each male citizen a rifle made the country too expensive to conquer. Sure, they also had an army with tanks. But some other countries had more tanks, and yet they decided not to try their luck there. In situations where the most expensive resource is not people, but land or diamonds or oil, just coming with lots of tanks and killing everyone in sight can be a profitable action. In future, with lots of cheap autonomous drones, you could program them to kill anyone who is not your soldier and who holds a rifle in t

A few things that were touched on, but I'd like to see further discussion on;

If Omicron is importantly less severe than Delta, does it continue to pose any sort of humanity-wide threat other than the obvious potential overreaction and politicians doing things to seem like they have a handle on the situation? Conditional on Omicron being more vaccine avoidant and less severe, is there any good reason not to simply continue reopening and work on better booster/Paxlovid distribution systems, instead of trying to use mask mandates/lockdowns?

Moreover, how much ... (read more)

7jaspax
I wished to make a similar point to your #1. If Omicron is both more contagious and less severe than Delta... that seems like a best-case scenario. Rather than being an important worsening of the pandemic, it could effectively end the pandemic by replacing most existing strains with something even less dangerous (and COVID is already not very dangerous). Though even if this is the case, I don't expect our health and government authorities to admit it.

Until new information comes out which clarifies the infectivity and severity of Omicron, especially against the vaccinated, I'm potentially more worried about outsized and concerning responses to the new variant than I am about Omicron itself. To be clear, this isn't diminishing the potential bad results of Omicron—but in terms of actual infectivity and severity, I don't expect it to be a lot worse than Delta. Vaccine resistance is more concerning, especially considering original antigenic sin.

That being said, my school (and California) has been requiring ... (read more)

3Edward Pascal
I worry sometimes about burnout effects. What if we do all that and Omikron isn't so bad, but two variants further down the road is 'the one' and no one is willing to do anything about it?

Done! This is a very cool opportunity.

I'm a Davidson YS and have access to the general email list. Is there a somewhat standard intro to EA that I could modify and post there without seeming like I'm proselytizing? 

2James_Miller
This:  https://www.effectivealtruism.org/articles/introduction-to-effective-altruism/

There's no way world governments would coordinate around this, especially since it is a) a problem that most people barely understand and b) would completely cut off all human technological progress. No one would support this policy. Hell, even if ridiculously powerful aliens à la God came and told us that we weren't allowed to build AGI on the threat of eternal suffering, I'm not sure world governments would coordinate around this.

If alignment was impossible, we might just be doomed.  

4dkirmani
Yeah. On the off chance that the CIA actually does run the government from the shadows, I really hope some of them lurk on LessWrong.

Our creator doesn't have a utility function in any meaningful sense of the term. Genes that adapt best for survival and reproduction propagate through the population, but it's competitive. Evolution doesn't have goals, and in fact from the standpoint of individual genes (where evolution works) it is entirely a zero-sum game. 

Mask mandates for students are ridiculous. Vaccine mandates are significantly more complicated, but honestly, people that are putting others' lives in danger based on misinformation should not be allowed to keep their jobs so they can continue to do so.

3Razied
Do you think that people's driving license should be revoked after the first time they are caught speeding? Should DUI infractions mean that you automatically get fired from your job? Should convicted violent criminals never be allowed to hold another job? We need to maintain a sense of scale between the crime and the punishment, getting your livelihood taken away for the "crime" of not getting vaccinated is way way too excessive for the current death rate of covid. If you think the current death rate warrants such harsh punishments, what's the death rate where you think the threat of joblessness can be removed?
devansh130

Any advice on convincing fully vaccinated family members that we need to stop worrying so much about COVID now? The response I keep getting even after showing them the numbers is that "but COVID keeps changing, there could always be a new variant spreading through the population that is significantly more severe/deadly/evading the vaccines." I'm not an epidemiologist, but that seems like a worry that (with full vaccination) is pretty much on par with "we could have a new pandemic, so we should all mask and constantly take precautions"—especially considerin... (read more)

5tkpwaeub
Re convincing family to stop worrying - sounds tricky. I know this sounds corny, but try using "I" statements. As for "meaningful differences" between covid and flu - the last remaining meaningful difference is the lack of an antiviral. In a couple months we'll have a choice of two. Feel free to message me if you want to rehearse your convos with your family
1[comment deleted]
9CraigMichael
I know I just said this above, but will give some more context. A few months ago I asked a similar question. https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/mXBBHAEXj2JyPC6Dt/is-there-a-theoretical-upper-limit-on-the-r0-of-covid I think the answer is: there is a limit to how transmissible Covid can get. I don’t know that there’s a way to prove that it can’t get worse than Delta, but when I look at nextstrain.org and consider that Covid has now has been hosted by billions of people, and has had several orders of magnitude more opportunities to replicate and evolve, and as of yet it hasn’t come up with anything much better than Delta.

You're right. I think this is shocking me because it affects so many people I know and generally expect to be more calibrated in their beliefs, and the all-too-common handwaving of "we don't know enough about COVID" is not a free pass to be overcautious. That is, people I expect better from are overestimating the risk of the virus to a similar degree that anti-vaxxers are underestimating the risk of the virus/overestimating the risks of the vaccine, which is genuinely dangerous. Mixed messaging from the CDC and news establishments isn't helping either.

1cistrane
There are two types of antivaxxers. Those who had covid and recovered and those who did not. The ones that had covid and recovered do not underestimate the risk of the virus to themselves.

"I reminded her about the delta variant and how it’s caused so many children her age to end up in the ICU. I told her that she only has to wait a few more months until she’s eligible for the vaccine, and this isn’t the time to become complacent."

I genuinely do not understand how it's possible to so fundamentally not comprehend risk. To be clear, from the best of our calculations, the probability of COVID hospitalizations in eleven-year-olds is substantially less than the probability of flu hospitalization. In fact, even contingent on an eleven-year-old get... (read more)

6Zvi
You're not preaching, you're noticing you are confused. Which is good.  I am not confused here, because the media is running stories about kids ending up in the ICU and most people don't think about base rates, so it's unsurprising that many parents think like this. Also see satanic child abuse cults, or stranger danger, or poisoned Halloween candy, etc etc. 
devansh110

Probably really bad, actually.  The first thing that comes to mind here is the hygiene hypothesis—preventing kids from getting low-strength diseases as children when their immune systems are "being trained" to fight it off is likely going to cause issues in the future, and to solve a relatively small problem anyways (not many kids are hospitalized or die from other pathogens, and there isn't any good evidence that the long-term effects of diseases on children cause fitness or intelligence loss in the general population). Not to mention, masks are a ma... (read more)

7James_Miller
Given that we are exposed to a lot more pathogens than were 99%+ of humans who have ever existed, the hygiene hypothesis doesn't make theoretical sense.  I can accept that if you are going to be exposed to a lot of pathogens as an adult you might be better off being exposed to them as a kid, but it seems that you would be better off if you are never exposed to them.

Yeah, I think that that's a good point about the one-dimensionality of any unit of measure used to assess risk. It might be possible to effectively start measuring in quality-adjusted life minutes or hours, but that quite quickly becomes a massive headache to calculate, even if it's more accurate to the actual impact on people. I think that using a unit like the mortmile is a good way to effectively make back-of-the-envelope calculations to assess the degree of risk and quickly understand just how risky something is, especially when differences are measured in orders of magnitude (as they usually are).

Where are you getting a billion to 1 odds for the options bet payoff of the S&P going down 30% in the next year? Because if that's true, I'd invest a thousand dollars in that and have a solid chance at becoming a trillionaire.

[This comment is no longer endorsed by its author]Reply
1FCCC
A billion to 1 chance of a 99 percent drop, not a 30 percent drop.

It's somewhat active, but games take a week or so to begin after signups. Player level is definitely variable.

How do you end up assessing which players are easily manipulated, and how do you "pocket" them without other skilled players catching on to what you're doing?

1Leafcraft
Skilled players catching on to you is irrelevant. That was exactly my problem after I got a bit of experience: I could easily catch evil but no one would believe me. On the other hand if you can "capture" an enemy player you can pretty much brute force the result regardless of other people's actions (unless there are other good manipulators). Also consider that you'll often have to pocket an allied player just to get them to play "correctly", it's not something you necessarily have to do to an enemy.  Assessing players becomes relatively easy after some practice, they basically fall into a handful of categories:  * Blanks are troll/AFKers, nothing you can do about them * Noobs either will do nothing or play randomly, ignore them early in the game if you're evil (and don't kill them), if you're Town tell them what to do ONCE then ignore them if they won't follow you (if they ignore you the first time you will never convince them anyway) * Logicals are good at understanding what's going on, if they are on your team they will easily cooperate, if you're an enemy they will believe any lie you tell them as long as the lie is compatible with the info they have (and they will act accordingly). * Socials are good at controlling the stage, they are "loud" and successfully demand attention/action, though they are usually bad at deduction. If they are aligned with you talk to them in whispers only and let them control the public (they are usually "arrogant" and won't share control of the public stage); if they aren't on your team it gets diffcult: try pointing a finger at someone and see if they take the bait, bussing can also work in these cases * Quiets are people that lie low, basically pretending to be Blanks/Noobs. They are the most difficult to control, some of them are really really good. When picking someone to control these should be your last choice.
devansh110

How strongly are anti-vaxxers incentivised to create fake vaccine passports, anyways? There's a certain aspect that you mentioned—accepting the solemnity of the ritual requires that one submits to the rules, that they agree that they need to show a vaccine card to enter restaurants. Anti-vaxxers by and large either fundamentally object to the vaccine and are proud of that fact, or they are still hesitant to get the vaccine because they're scared of it/think they don't need it/it's too much of an inconvenience/whatever else. For the first group, showing a f... (read more)

4cistrane
You may underestimate the second group. People who are convinced that the government is mandating poisonous treatment are pretty paranoid to begin with and as many paranoid people, they will attempt to hide and blend in in any way they can manage to avoid the poisonous treatment.
6tkpwaeub
Excellent point. I'm reminded of this joke: