All of Fetterkey's Comments + Replies

Do you have a link to some well-written material on the subject? You've piqued my curiosity.

0gwern
In lieu of anything better, you can try my DNB FAQ which discusses the general subject: http://www.gwern.net/N-back%20FAQ
2gwern
There's nothing really written for the layman online (which I know of). You can start by googling for topics like 'latent inhibition' and research on meditation. Genuine research papers-wise, you could join http://groups.google.com/group/brain-training to which group's files I have uploaded ~20 papers on various topics related to working memory and focus. Important ones: * klingberg2004-workingmemory-increase-helps-adhd.pdf * mcvay2009-workingmemory-improves-focus.pdf * thorell2008-workingmemory-improves-attention.pdf * unsworthengle2008-wm-executive-focus.pdf * jaeggi2008-nback-increases-iq.pdf EDIT: in the future, Google will be deleting Groups' Files. You will want to search around for where the collection has moved to; I keep local copies of the most important ones in my wiki, and I copied all files c. October 2010 to my Dropbox account.

You are right. Thank you for pointing that out, you have helped me improve.

The amount of will necessary to close a window is itself trivial, if will can indeed be considered a resource to be spent.

5wedrifid
Many people find the will cost non negligible. While I don't actually know (or want to know) exactly what TV troups is, avoiding the temptation to, say, follow links from google reader to lesswrong.com is a sufficient expense that I often install leechblock for months at a time. Willpower can absolutely be considered a resource to be spent. References on request or on google. In fact, I seem to recall the topic coming up here once or thrice.

Shouldn't rational individuals be able to avoid such perils?

9wedrifid
By, for example, acknowledging their weaknesses and managing their environment such that it doesn't waste valuable willpower on trivialities.
4Peter_de_Blanc
Because of this.

Even the typing style of this message makes it sound irrational. Were you joking?

I think it would help.

I declare Crocker's Rules.

2Dentin
I've also declared them, and even though it's been three years, I think it's important enough to warrant posting here. Crocker's Rules are hard - you have to really sit down and think about it, run the simulations, and try to figure out the worst, most offensive things to you personally, and why they truly bother you. It helps to have a small identity. But one of the worst things about Crocker's Rules is using them in polite society. You'd think it would be an advantage; in fact, I've found that it creeps people out. When nothing that is said bothers a person, others subconciously seem to think that there's something wrong. I've started emulating low levels of emotional response in these situations because it seems to make people more comfortable.

My mistake, I was referring to the Edward Tufte stuff. Thank you for correcting me.

I'd say the initial comment probably was worthy of the downvote, but the rest weren't.

0MrHen
Fair enough.

I've had drops of 5 or 6 karma at a time as someone goes through and downvotes all my comments in a particular thread, but I think that's the price we have to pay; by and large, the karma system here seems to work very well, and provides a very useful method of gauging posts.

0MrHen
Not to be a punk, but were all of those posts deserving of being downvoted? I have no qualms with downvoting posts in batches as long as those posts would have been downvoted anyway. Periodically I read older articles or read the recent posts of certain people. If I find a thread of comments I think should be up or downvoted I do so. This may hit one person with 5 or 6 votes all at once. I don't think that getting 30 downvotes after a particularly volatile thread is necessarily misuse of the karma system. I can see how it would happen through legitimate use. As long as each vote was made within the full context of the comment, a drop of 30 is very plausible. It is, however, much more convenient to say that someone is picking on you than to consider that no one bothered to read your comments until now. This being said, SilasBarta's notes about his recent hits do not appear to follow a legitimate pattern. I am not trying to point at anyone here, least of all SilasBarta; I am just noting that cries of, "Unfair!" don't always point to someone abusing the system. I completely agree. I find the karma system very helpful.

To elaborate on your third point, I think the expected return from cooperating so as to bring back information and continue your work is far greater than the expected return from remaining defiant in order to deny the enemy a propaganda victory.

This is extremely belated, but I know several people who would be willing to eliminate the vast majority of their values in this fashion, at least if they believed that they were truly helping humanity.

This is common not just in sports, but in other fields as well. If the Allies had been thrown back into the sea on D-Day, it would have gone down as a historic blunder; many, perhaps even most, judge decisions not by their expected chance of succeeding but by their results.

I understand this research, view it as important, and know several people who are working in this field at the present time. That said, the work of geneticists is quite different from casual social observations and generalizations. When I speak out against sweeping generalizations based on gender or ethnicity, I do not speak out against the geneticists.

0nazgulnarsil
I'm not going to shout down people who make observations about group behavior just because their observations haven't been tested in a double blind trial yet. the data precludes us from making certain generalizations. it doesn't stop the tentative creation of new ones. if I made a generalization about people with fingers of certain length it wouldn't generate nearly this much ire. we shouldn't treat race any differently just because people made stupid generalizations in the past. We don't have enough data to make the case for OR against any racism (biological differences -> behavioral differences)

I'm quite surprised that this requires explanation, since this seems like basic-level rationality to me, but here we go:

Generalizations about people of a particular ethnicity, based solely on their ethnicity, are racist. Overt racism is not acceptable in modern civilized society. In the past, overt racism was acceptable, but we have moved beyond that. It is extremely unwise both from a personal belief perspective and from a general signalling perspective to hold or argue for such views.

5nazgulnarsil
generalizations about individuals based on their ethnicity is clearly dumb. inquiring into broad trends that correlate well with ethnic divisions is interesting and demands further research. http://www.reason.com/news/show/116483.html we're at the dawn of understanding genetics. to preemptively decide that a branch of inquiry will not be allowed simply because our ancestors were ignorant douche bags is silly. as rationalists I'd say it's our job more than most to take a mature, level headed look at the data that emerges. things are really going to heat up once we get cheap complete genome sequencing. we'll be able to look at actual allele distributions in ethnic sub-groups on a large scale for the first time in history (!)

I strongly agree, and I'd like to add that I definitely see a place for this sort of instrumental rationality here.

I fear I play a poor inquisitor, and you a poor Galileo. The thought that it's all right to make broad generalizations about large groups of people isn't some great new theory that society is trying to suppress-- it's just wrong. Indeed, such an idea is regressive, not revolutionary.

5nazgulnarsil
you're attaching a bunch of words with negative connotation without actually telling what's wrong. we all make generalizations all the time. we can't interface with reality without making generalizations. if it is clearly wrong then you have the entire apparatus of social statistics to debunk.

"there's absolutely nothing wrong with men making generalizations about women, nothing wrong with whites making generalizations about blacks or vice versa. allowing overly sensitive members of minority groups to dictate behavior is a waste of time."

Are you serious? Assuming that you are, you are treading on ground that is far from stable, especially in a place such as this...

3nazgulnarsil
http://www.paulgraham.com/say.html

This may be somewhat tangential, but a bit of graph theory would do wonders, especially theory related to recognizing deceptive or misleading graphs.

4Jess_Riedel
Careful. The term "graph theory" is usually used to refer to a specific branch of mathematics which I don't think you're referring to.

Easier != better than.

I find his stance in this regard to be absolutely correct; if you're going to write a book on methods of manipulating people, you may as well call a spade a spade.

I am not female, and I find some of the language and PUA-related content here to be extremely off-putting. If you really want to refine the art of seduction, I would suggest reading Greene; this blog, on the other hand, is for refining the art of rationality.

6HughRistik
Robert Greene? How extensively have you read him? He readily advocates manipulation and refers to the other party as the "victim." I find this off-putting: he is describing things that are (mostly) fair play in a way that makes them sound like foul play, which is exactly how many PUAs sound, leading readers to get the wrong idea.

I think that your efforts would be better spent taming the "sex-crazed maniac" part of your brain, frankly.

3[anonymous]
x

Could you explain in what sense you mean "personally responsible?"

1billswift
I mean that people should bear some part of the forseeable costs of their actions. I say "some part" because the actions of others also influence costs, and stress "foreseeable" because in any complex system things interact to such an extent that only very direct results can actually be attributed reliably to any one party. Most attributions of "fault" in complex systems is scapegoating or motivated by interpersonal status games.

Can you clarify your disagreement with the doctrine of an unaccountable judiciary?

1billswift
This is a bit off-topic so I'm not going into any detail here, but you might check out this book by Max Boot, "Out of Order: Arrogance, Corruption, & Incompetence on the Bench", a large proportion of the problems he wrote about arose from judges not being personally responible for their actions on the bench. Also, more generally, I am a libertarian largely because I believe that everyone is totally and completely responsible for their own actions. Even if someone is holding a gun to your head, you decide what you do in response (and are responsible for letting yourself get in that position). Or if you are drunk or drugged, you are responsible for putting yourself in that position and therefore for what you do while that way.

Strictly speaking, is the potential for gaming the system even really a problem? Someone who is successful in doing so gains nothing other than the ability to post, and as Kaj posted out, gaming the system is likely to be more difficult the more important the "reward" of posting is considered to be. Further, Eliezer mentioned that the free karma for posting is unintentional but low-priority, implying that people getting free karma isn't exactly a big deal here.

Concur. The most effective people I've known have combined a fair degree of intelligence and knowledge with a distinct integrative facility. Compartmentalization can at times be a useful tool for simplifying a problem, but in other cases, it can blind you to potential unconventional solutions.