All of jpyykko's Comments + Replies

jpyykko
Ω030

I feel that the social instincts link to the learned-from-scratch world-model via a chain of guided development windows.
The singular links in the chain are stacks of affective mechanisms: the trigger that detects the environmental stimulus (the moving large object for ducklings), the response (follow that object), and an affect (emotion) that links the instinct to the learned model via a reward signal to strengthen the association (feeling of safety).
As it would be near impossible for the DNA to have a concept of "Rita won a trophy" as the trigger, the sys... (read more)

2Angela Pretorius
When my little one was a newborn he was just as happy being handled by strangers as he was with mum and dad. It was around four months that he started showing a preference for mum and dad and disliking strangers. I’m sure that he could recognise us long before the four month mark though. Geese need to imprint from birth, whereas there is no immediate need for a baby who is not yet mobile to imprint on it’s parents. So if babies have an ‘imprinting window’ then it probably occurs later, after a baby has learnt to reliably recognise familiar faces in spite of changes in make-up or clothing. Aside: Babies prefer to look at faces while still in the womb https://www.lancaster.ac.uk/news/articles/2017/babies-preference-for-faces-begins-before-birth-/.
5Steven Byrnes
Sorta, but unfortunately the "mirror neuron" literature seems to be a giant dumpster fire. I suggest & endorse the book The Myth Of Mirror Neurons by Hickok. UPDATE: See also my later post Quick notes on "mirror neurons".

If I understood correctly, babies cannot focus their eyes properly for the first two months, and this may indicate they are learning some universal 3D-spatial models into their heads, as a prerequisite for many of the other instincts they have as later developmental windows. So there has to be some thread of signals that string this system to the later affects/instincts, such as the fear of heights. 

It is also funny to relate the ability of many ungulate babies ability to walk immediately on birth, meaning there has to be some seriously robust set of ... (read more)

3Gunnar_Zarncke
Related: Gene for upright walk in humans discovered: https://www.theguardian.com/science/2008/jun/02/genetics.medicalresearch 

I'll have to read this one too, thanks.

There's one issue that I don't have an answer yet: how would the visual system detect "height"? 
Could we presume there is a spatial engine that needs to be taught first, and then linked to this phobia?

Or would it make sense to have a straight link to a spatial predictive system instead, and if the system would predict that there's some uncertainty in if the agent suddenly needs more space to maneuver, and then that space is instead occupied with a void? At least *I* cannot look up when the fear of heights triggers, and get a sudden sensation of vertigo: I need to know where the closest brace-point is when I know falling might be imminent.

2Gunnar_Zarncke
The visual system wouldn't detect the abstract concept of height, and that would be the brain's job to figure out by being primed on when the thing triggers and what else correlates with it. I imagine the visual system would detect visual depth from binocular vision. Babies learn this in the first few months. It is one of the things that cause them distress when it gets activated in the brain. I don't know the research papers, but these might be starting pointers: https://www.beltz.de/fileadmin/beltz/leseproben/978-3-621-27926-0.pdf (picture 2.2, German)    https://www.thewonderweeks.com/babys-mental-leaps-first-year/ (week 26) So visual depth you have without much learning - or with other priming steps ahead of that; I understand these are well researched). What is left is the vertical component, and I guess that it comes from the vestibular system. Looking down + visual depths = height trigger.  It is funny that you mention the need to grasp something, and maybe that is the hard-wired cue: Close the hand. 

It fits perfectly, thanks! 
Yes, there's a bunch of other mechanisms/phenomena, such as 
- the developmental windows for learning speech and language,
- the spectrum of reactions to distress (anger, fear, etc.),
- the palmar grasp reflex. 
Basically I'm interested in all biological mechanisms that control our learning, not just affects, and even if they seem irrelevant for AI purposes. As can be seen from Kaj's post there, the way to get these systems to work might be nonintuitive, so every little hint will help in the end.

I think another post might be in order to fully explore the list of all of these biological mechanisms at some point, maybe as a pitstop before going into the full deal. 

3Gunnar_Zarncke
I have found a source of some more plausible mechanisms tied to common emotions here: Dares, costly signals, and psychopaths (which references The Psychopath Code, see raw text on Github). These sources are focused on psychopaths but give extremely well-suited descriptions of the following classes of emotions: * The predator emotions help us hunt and capture prey. * The defense emotions prepare us to detect and deal with predators and competitors. * The sexual emotions drive us to find sexual partners. * The family emotions let us talk to our parents and care for our offspring. * The group emotions let us form small social groups. * The social emotions let us form looser and larger social groups. Some examples:  All of the descriptions are like this, and I think an excellent source when looking for mechanisms that facilitate the recognition of the more abstract patterns.
3Gunnar_Zarncke
Other things that are candidates:  * Fear of height could work like the spider thing: The visual system detecting "height" based on depth information and a downward look and respond like in fear of spider thing with increased heart-rate and attention. * What we find beautiful could come from a heart-rate increase and or other positively valued responses to low-complexity visual cues like * the smoothness of visual features or easy to predict patterns ("clear forms") - at least easy to predict for shallow neuronal networks * Same for sound patterns - or maybe a spectrum with many small peaks as in surf or wind sounds or cafe conversation.  * The visual cues for sexual attraction are relatively well-known. Obviously, the strength of the endocrine response is high. It is plausible that the high number of different fetishes can be explained by the brain learning to associate anything with such a strong signal. Not just a single specific thing as in the spider response.
3Gunnar_Zarncke
Then this one might also be relevant: Inner Alignment in Salt-Starved Rats