All of jscn's Comments + Replies

jscn160

The intellect, as a means for the preservation of the individual, unfolds its chief powers in simulation; for this is the means by which the weaker, less robust individuals preserve themselves, since they are denied the chance of waging the struggle for existence with horns or the fangs of beasts of prey. In man this art of simulation reaches its peak: here deception, flattering, lying and cheating, talking behind the back, posing, living in borrowed splendor, being masked, the disguise of convention, acting a role before others and before oneself—in shor

... (read more)
jscn00

MixedNuts's comment reminded me of a good resource for such techniques, and, indeed, for generally improving one's effectiveness at reading: How To Read A Book

jscn80

It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.

-- Mark Twain

Clearly Dennett has his sources all mixed up.

jscn30
  • Solaris by Stanislaw Lem is probably one of my all time favourites.
  • Anathem by Neal Stephenson is very good.
0djcb
I really like Anathem (am about halfway reading it); I'd goes into many of the themes popular around here (rationalism, MWI), except for the singularity stuff.
jscn30

Voted up mainly for the Greg Egan recommendations.

jscn10

But the problem is worse than that because "Sometimes, crows caw" actually does allow you to make predictions in the way "electricity!" does not.

The problem is even worse than that, because "Sometimes, crows caw" predicts both the hearing of a caw and the non-hearing of a caw. So it does not explain either (at least, based on the default model of scientific explanation).

If we go with "Crows always caw and only crows caw" (along with your extra premises regarding lungs, sound and ears etc), then we might end up wit... (read more)

1Jack
This issue actually came up while I was reading Hempel's "Aspects of Scientific Explanation". It can be seen as a specific objection to the covering law model as well as a general problem for all explanation. Think of it as a poorly specified inductive-statistical explanation. Not at all. One problem with Hempel is that there are covering-law predictions that aren't causal stories and therefore don't look like explanations. For example, if some event X always causes Y and Z then we can have a covering law model predicting Z from Y and Laws. But that model doesn't result in an explanation for Z. But even a causal explanation is going to have general laws which aren't reducible. Thus, the problem would remain. And actually, "crows caw" is a causal explanation so I'm not sure why you would think my problem was the absence of causation. If you did see my last two paragraphs in this reply I think they do a better job explaining the problem than this first post. And by all means, post anything you think would be insightful.
jscn10

Huh, I thought there was a fair bit of evidence around showing that people perform basically just as badly on tests which exploit cognitive biases after being told about them as they do in a state of ignorance.

2MichaelGR
Indeed. That's why it is just "a first step". Telling them is not enough, but you've got to start there.
jscn10

I found Drive Yourself Sane useful for similar reasons.

I've been meaning to take a stab at Korzybski's Science and Sanity (available on the interwebs, I believe) for a while, but I've heard it's fairly impenetrable.

0Richard_Kennaway
Available here. I had the experience, which I heard others have also had, that it was impenetrably turgid on a first reading, but perfectly clear on coming back to it a few years later. Still just as turgid, but clear. The science is also very dated. I have mixed thoughts about recommending it. It's a bit like recommending E.E. "Doc" Smith as an introduction to science fiction. Necessary to read at some point, but not at the outset. I'd be interested to see what anyone else who has read it thinks. ETA: Just flicking through the online copy I found one place where the science is, I think, wrong even with respect to the knowledge of the time. "A molecule of water is broken up [by an electric current] into a positively charged hydrogen ion consisting of two hydrogen atoms, and a negatively charged oxygen ion consisting of one oxygen atom." (chap. XL, p.686)
jscn120

It's a wonderful thing to be clever, and you should never think otherwise, and you should never stop being that way. But what you learn, as you get older, is that there are a few million other people in the world all trying to be clever at the same time, and whatever you do with your life will certainly be lost - swallowed up in the ocean - unless you are doing it with like-minded people who will remember your contributions and carry them forward. That is why the world is divided into tribes.

-- Neal Stephenson, The Diamond Age

I neglected to record from which character the quote came.

3gwern
pg 293, according to my ebook; the speaker seems to be Miss Matheson instructing the protagonist and her chums (while they are still in the Vicky schools).
jscn40

Rationality is highly correlated intelligence

According to research K.E. Stanovich, this is not the case:

Intelligence tests measure important things, but they do not assess the extent of rational thought. This might not be such a grave omission if intelligence were a strong predictor of rational thinking. But my research group found just the opposite: it is a mild predictor at best, and some rational thinking skills are totally dissociated from intelligence.

See http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/stanovich1

jscn40

The classic example of riding a bicycle comes to mind. No amount of propositional knowledge will allow you to use a bike successfully on the first go. Theory about gyroscopic effects of wheels and so forth all comes to nothing until you hop on and try (and fail, repeatedly) to ride the damn thing.

Conversely, most people never realise the propositional knowledge that in order to steer the bike left, you must turn the handle bars right (at least initially and at high speeds). But they do it unconsciously nonetheless.

jscn40

But once procedural knowledge is had, it also incorporates things like body memory and pure automatic habit, which, when observed in oneself, are just as likely to be rationalized after the fact as they are to be antecedently planned for sound reasons. It's also easy to forget the initial propositions about a mastered procedure.

I've also noticed this kind of thing in my martial arts training.

For instance, often times high level black belts will be incredibly successful at a particular technique but unable to explain the procedure they use (or at least,... (read more)

jscn00

This tendency can be used for good, though. As long as you're aware of the weakness, why not take advantage of it? Intentional self-priming, anchoring, rituals of all kinds can be repurposed.

-1Annoyance
Because repetition tends to reinforce things, both positive and negative. You might be able to take advantage of a security weakness in your computer network, but if you leave it open other things will be able to take advantage of it too. It's far better to close the hole and reduce vulnerability, even if it means losing access to short-term convenience.
jscn00

Most of these bad Philosophers were encountered during the few classes I took to get a Philosophy minor.

Initially I thought you were talking about professional Philosophers, not students. This clears that up, but it would be better to refer to them as Philosophy students. Most people wouldn't call Science undergrads "Scientists".

My experience with Philosophy has been the opposite. Almost all the original writing we've read has been focused on how and why the original authors were wrong, and how modern theories address their errors. Admittedly,... (read more)

jscn20

I would guess that it's because comments are shorter and tend to express a single idea. Posts tend to have a series of ideas, which means a voter is less likely to think all of them are good/worthy of an upvote.

jscn20

Thirded. I completed half of my degree in CS before switching to Philosophy. I'm finding it significantly more stimulating. I don't think I learned anything in my CS classes that I couldn't easily have taught myself (and had more fun doing so).

jscn00

According to this post, doing so would be "against blog guidelines". The suggested approach is to do top-level book review posts. I haven't seen any of these yet, though.

jscn00

That sorted it, thanks.

jscn10

Having recently received a couple of Amazon gift certificates, I'm looking for recommendations of 'rationalist' books to buy. (It's a little difficult to separate the wheat from the chaff.)

I'm looking mainly for non-fiction that would be helpful on the road to rationality. Anything from general introductory type texts to more technical or math oriented stuff. I found this OB thread which has some recommendations, but I thought that:

  • this could be a useful thread for beginners (and others) here
  • the ability to vote on suggestions would provide extra informa
... (read more)
1evtujo
I'm reading The Moral Animal (Robert Wright) currently and have been recommending it to everyone I talk to.
1arundelo
Beginning of unordered list test * Item one * Item two End of unordered list test Source code: Beginning of unordered list test * Item one * Item two End of unordered list test My guess: you're missing a blank line before your list.
2MichaelHoward
See also Eliezer's Rationalist Fiction and Great Books of Failure posts, and his old but good Bookshelf. A few here too.
1CronoDAS
The Demon-Haunted World: Science as a Candle in the Dark by Carl Sagan
0CronoDAS
Why People Believe Weird Things: Pseudoscience, Superstition, and Other Confusions of Our Time by Michael Shermer
1mattnewport
Empire by Niall Ferguson.
1mattnewport
Freedom Evolves by Daniel Dennett.
1mattnewport
Surely You're Joking Mr. Feynman by Richard Feynman.
2mattnewport
Basic Economics by Thomas Sowell.
2mattnewport
The Selfish Gene by Richard Dawkins.
2mattnewport
Consciousness Explained by Daniel Dennett.
1Lawliet
Might be easier to manage comments and direct people to it if its a whole post rather than a comment in the may 09 open thread.
jscn10

Nothing terrible will happen to Wednesday if she deconverts

The terrible thing has already happened at this stage. Telling your children that lies are true (i.e., that Mormonism is true), when they have no better way of discerning the truth than simply believing what you say, is abusive and anti-moralistic. It is fundamentally destructive of a person's ability to cope with reality.

I have never heard a story of deconversion that was painless. Everyone I know who has deconverted from a religious upbringing has undergone large amounts of internal (and often... (read more)

jscn30

What do you do with the answer, though? I have a fair idea of why most of my procrastination occurs (if I leave something til the last minute and make a hash of it, I have a convenient excuse to protect my ego) but that has never seemed to help me actually overcome it.

5pjeby
What you've just described is a "far" explanation of the system of your procrastination, not the "near" process by which you actually perform the behavior of procrastination. The system description may or may not be accurate, but it is in either event useless for actually changing the behavior, since it does not reflect the level of abstraction where the behavior is performed. To put it another way, your actual decision to procrastinate is not based on "a convenient excuse to protect my ego" -- it's based on some experience you get at the moment in time where you make the decision. That experience is not the same thing as the words you use to describe the experience, or to rationalize your decision with. If you know what the actual experience is, though, then you have the possibility of questioning the evidence behind the belief that produces the experience, similar to Eliezer's example of questioning and revising his mental model of the serial killer behind the door. Intellectually knowing there's no killer behind the door is not the same as experientially knowing there's no killer. A "far" description of a problem can't directly fix the problem, because it's not on the same logical level as the problem itself -- i.e., merely knowing that it is mathematically improbable for a lurking killer to exist, doesn't get rid of the fear. It has to be translated to a sensory experience. In your particular case, you don't actually know how you procrastinate, you only have an explanation for why you procrastinate, and these are two radically different things. Once you know how you do it, such that you can deliberately repeat it, you can then try different standard belief-change or other self-help interventions to actually change it, and you can rigorously test whether a given technique works or not. Asking about self-help techniques, however, is like asking about opening lines in pickup: it's what everybody wants, but not what you NEED. As in software debugging, what yo
jscn150

I've always enjoyed Lewis Carroll's talk of maps:

"That's another thing we've learned from your Nation," said Mein Herr, "map-making. But we've carried it much further than you. What do you consider the largest map that would be really useful?"

"About six inches to the mile."

"Only six inches!" exclaimed Mein Herr. "We very soon got to six yards to the mile. Then we tried a hundred yards to the mile. And then came the grandest idea of all! We actually made a map of the country, on the scale of a mile to the mile!

... (read more)
8Kindly
Only a single mile to the mile? I've seen maps in biology textbooks that were much larger than that.
5pure-awesome
So much for "the map is not the territory", I guess.
jscn10

I'm not confident I could do a good job of it. He proposes that most problems in relationships come from our mythologies about ourselves and others. In order to have good relationships, we have to be able to be honest about what's actually going on underneath those mythologies. Obviously this involves work on ourselves, and we should help our partner to do the same (not by trying to change them, but by assisting them in discovering what is actually going on for them). He calls his approach to this kind of communication the "Real-Time Relationship.&quo... (read more)

jscn10

I've found the work of Stefan Molyneux to be very insightful with regards to this (his other work has also been pretty influential for me).

You can find his books for free here. I haven't actually read his book on this specific topic ("Real-Time Relationships: The Logic of Love") since I was following his podcasting and forums pretty closely while he was working up to writing it.

0Lawliet
Do you think you could summarise it for everybody in a post?
jscn20

If you don't know about relative motion and inertia, then it does seem like the sun moves around the earth (even when you know, it still looks that way). Prior to the "Copernican" revolution, it was generally thought that our sense experience of everyday life was sufficient to expose the truth to us. Those two things combined make a major roadblock in establishing that the earth rotates.

Now we can fully appreciate that it doesn't even make sense to make an absolute statement either way. If earth is taken to be stationary, then the sun does move around it (interestingly, this was Tycho Brahe's solution to the problem of shifting to a helio-centric view.)

jscn30

I find it hard to believe that you haven't thought about the following, but you haven't mentioned it so I will. Conventional wisdom says:

1) Being at a healthy weight/having a 'healthy lifestyle' will (accidents and terminal genetic disorders aside) result in you living a longer life. This means more time to work on FAI stuff.

2) Exercise and good diet tend to increase feelings of well being and energy levels. This means better/more effective work on FAI stuff.

Discounting physical health and concentrating on intellectual life seems to me to be a status symbo... (read more)

jscn00

Blood chokes still take several minutes to effect brain damage/death. I find the idea of accidentally throttling someone to death fairly suspicious. Besides, if it was truly an accident then where does Browne's guilt come from? I don't think the story suggested it was an accident.

5ArisKatsaris
You think people can't have guilt over accidents they caused?
5gwern
From the descriptions, Browne seems to've been something of a literalist prig. And the Bible does say 'Thou shalt not kill.' in pretty absolute terms.
jscn40

I've recently started reading a book on the changes which Zen meditation seems to cause on neurology and consciousness, authored by a neurologist. The premise seems to fit with what you're saying.

I've heard that some meditative states (as measured by brain wave patterns) can be induced through the use of devices employing flashing lights and audio interference at certain frequencies ("binaural beats"). I've never really spent the time to investigate it seriously and there seems to be a fair amount of new-agey crap surrounding the idea, but it ma... (read more)

jscn30

I was indeed thinking of the Mentats and Bene Gesserit. As you both point out, there was a significant mystical aspect to it. I suppose I was thinking more of the approach taken to mental training (within the world's internally consistent, but mystical, framework) rather than any specific techniques or events.

Mentats on the other hand have "minds developed to staggering heights of cognitive and analytical ability" (thanks Wikipedia) which would seem to fit the bill.

On the other hand, I suppose that neither of these instances are quite what Eliezer was after, as "you can't go out and do it at home".

9bogdanb
The Bene Gesserit idea of “decide what's wrong with the world, make the best you can plan to fix it, and follow it up dispassionately even if takes ten millennia” seemed to me quite “grown-up” in the sense Eliezer uses the word. As a bonus, they (correctly) reasoned that a good strategy for such a plan includes investigating and perfecting techniques for pushing the human body and mind to its limits. Also, they don't shy away from using any advantage, including the gullibility of others—even going to the lengths of seeding religions with beliefs that will be useful a thousand years later—, everything they actually believe in does work*, even if not necessarily the “obvious” way (I'm talking about their “witch” powers). (*: within the logic of the books. Even the effects of the “Tarot” are falsifiable, in the Dune universe.) The Bene Gesserit are magical witches when seen by less knowledgeable characters, but presented as simply formidable humans when the point of view is internal. This had a strong effect in me (at a greener age) of wanting to learn how to become formidable, instead of wishing for magical powers.
jscn60

The Dune series and Neal Stephenson's latest novel Anathem both come to mind. The Dune series includes a number of plot devices involving mental discipline (although it's all semi-mystical.) The world of Anathem, on the other hand, is split into two factions, one of which is specifically rationalist. It gets pretty philosophical and weird toward the end, but it mostly involves rationalist characters using math/science/etc to overcome the hurdles in their way. The world it describes sounds pretty similair to what I've read of Eliezer's Bayesian Conspiracy.

2MichaelGR
I read Dune a while ago, but I can't remember ever thinking that the characters were taking a rationalist approach. Do you have any specific examples?