you might expect that the butterfly effect applies to ML training. make one small change early in training and it might cascade to change the training process in huge ways.
at least in non-RL training, this intuition seems to be basically wrong. you can do some pretty crazy things to the training process without really affecting macroscopic properties of the model (e.g loss). one very well known example is that using mixed precision training results in training curves that are basically identical to full precision training, even though you're throwing out a ton of bits of precision on every step.
there's an obvious synthesis of great man theory and broader structural forces theories of history.
there are great people, but these people are still bound by many constraints due to structural forces. political leaders can't just do whatever they want; they have to appease the keys of power within the country. in a democracy, the most obvious key of power is the citizens, who won't reelect a politician that tries to act against their interests. but even in dictatorships, keeping the economy at least kind of functional is important, because when the citize...
there are a lot of video games (and to a lesser extent movies, books, etc) that give the player an escapist fantasy of being hypercompetent. It's certainly an alluring promise: with only a few dozen hours of practice, you too could become a world class fighter or hacker or musician! But because becoming hypercompetent at anything is a lot of work, the game has to put its finger on the scale to deliver on this promise. Maybe flatter the user a bit, or let the player do cool things without the skill you'd actually need in real life.
It's easy to dismiss...
when i was new to research, i wouldn't feel motivated to run any experiment that wouldn't make it into the paper. surely it's much more efficient to only run the experiments that people want to see in the paper, right?
now that i'm more experienced, i mostly think of experiments as something i do to convince myself that a claim is correct. once i get to that point, actually getting the final figures for the paper is the easy part. the hard part is finding something unobvious but true. with this mental frame, it feels very reasonable to run 20 experiments for every experiment that makes it into the paper.
libraries abstract away the low level implementation details; you tell them what you want to get done and they make sure it happens. frameworks are the other way around. they abstract away the high level details; as long as you implement the low level details you're responsible for, you can assume the entire system works as intended.
a similar divide exists in human organizations and with managing up vs down. with managing up, you abstract away the details of your work and promise to solve some specific problem. with managing down, you abstract away the mis...
the laws of physics are quite compact. and presumably most of the complexity in a zygote is in the dna.
the tweet is making fun of people who are too eager to do something EMPIRICAL and SCIENTIFIC and ignore the pesky little detail that their empirical thing actually measures something subtly but importantly different from what they actually care about
i've changed my mind and been convinced that it's kind of a big deal that frontiermath was framed as something that nobody would have access to for hillclimbing when in fact openai would have access and other labs wouldn't. the undisclosed funding before o3 launch still seems relatively minor though
lol i was the one who taped it to the wall. it's one of my favorite tweets of all time
this doesn't seem like a huge deal
i've changed my mind and been convinced that it's kind of a big deal that frontiermath was framed as something that nobody would have access to for hillclimbing when in fact openai would have access and other labs wouldn't. the undisclosed funding before o3 launch still seems relatively minor though
am curious why you think this; it seems like some people were significantly misled and disclosure of potential conflicts-of-interest seems generally important
in retrospect, we know from chinchilla that gpt3 allocated its compute too much to parameters as opposed to training tokens. so it's not surprising that models since then are smaller. model size is a less fundamental measure of model cost than pretraining compute. from here on i'm going to assume that whenever you say size you meant to say compute.
obviously it is possible to train better models using the same amount of compute. one way to see this is that it is definitely possible to train worse models with the same compute, and it is implausible that the ...
suppose I believe the second coming involves the Lord giving a speech on capitol hill. one thing I might care about is how long until that happens. the fact that lots of people disagree about when the second coming is doesn't mean the Lord will give His speech soon.
similarly, the thing that I define as AGI involves AIs building Dyson spheres. the fact that other people disagree about when AGI is doesn't mean I should expect Dyson spheres soon.
The amount of contention says something about whether an event occurred according to the average interpretation. Whether it occurred according to your specific interpretation depends on how close that interpretation is to the average interpretation.
You can't increase the probability of getting a million dollars by personally choosing to define a contentious event as you getting a million dollars.
people disagree heavily on what the second coming will look like. this, of course, means that the second coming must be upon us
I agree that labs have more compute and more top researchers, and these both speed up research a lot. I disagree that the quality of responses is the same as outside labs, if only because there is lots of knowledge inside labs that's not available elsewhere. I think these positive factors are mostly orthogonal to the quality of software infrastructure.
some random takes:
I think safetywashing is a problem but from the perspective of an xrisky researcher it's not a big deal because for the audiences that matter, there are safetywashing things that are just way cheaper per unit of goodwill than xrisk alignment work - xrisk is kind of weird and unrelatable to anyone who doesn't already take it super seriously. I think people who work on non xrisk safety or distribution of benefits stuff should be more worried about this.
Weird it may be, but it is also somewhat influential among people who matter. The extended LW-sphere is not...
I think this is probably true of you and people around you but also you likely live in a bubble. To be clear, I'm not saying why people reading this should travel, but rather what a lot of travel is like, descriptively.
theory: a large fraction of travel is because of mimetic desire (seeing other people travel and feeling fomo / keeping up with the joneses), signalling purposes (posting on IG, demonstrating socioeconomic status), or mental compartmentalization of leisure time (similar to how it's really bad for your office and bedroom to be the same room).
this explains why in every tourist destination there are a whole bunch of very popular tourist traps that are in no way actually unique/comparatively-advantaged to the particular destination. for example: shopping, amusement parks, certain kinds of museums.
ok good that we agree interp might plausibly be on track. I don't really care to argue about whether it should count as prosaic alignment or not. I'd further claim that the following (not exhaustive) are also plausibly good (I'll sketch each out for the avoidance of doubt because sometimes people use these words subtly differently):
in capabilities, the most memetically successful things were for a long time not the things that actually worked. for a long time, people would turn their noses at the idea of simply scaling up models because it wasn't novel. the papers which are in retrospect the most important did not get that much attention at the time (e.g gpt2 was very unpopular among many academics; the Kaplan scaling laws paper was almost completely unnoticed when it came out; even the gpt3 paper went under the radar when it first came out.)
one example of a thing within prosaic alig...
If you're thinking mainly about interp, then I basically agree with what you've been saying. I don't usually think of interp as part of "prosaic alignment", it's quite different in terms of culture and mindset and it's much closer to what I imagine a non-streetlight-y field of alignment would look like. 90% of it is crap (usually in streetlight-y ways), but the memetic selection pressures don't seem too bad.
If we had about 10x more time than it looks like we have, then I'd say the field of interp is plausibly on track to handle the core problems of alignment.
some concrete examples
i think it's quite valuable to go through your key beliefs and work through what the implications would be if they were false. this has several benefits:
there are two different modes of learning i've noticed.
there is always too much information to pay attention to. without an inexpensive way to filter, the field would grind to a complete halt. style is probably a worse thing to select on than even academia cred, just because it's easier to fake.
I'm sympathetic to most prosaic alignment work being basically streetlighting. However, I think there's a nirvana fallacy going on when you claim that the entire field has gone astray. It's easiest to illustrate what I mean with an analogy to capabilities.
In capabilities land, there were a bunch of old school NLP/CV people who insisted that there's some kind of true essence of language or whatever that these newfangled neural network things weren't tackling. The neural networks are just learning syntax, but not semantics, or they're ungrounded, or they don...
I think you have two main points here, which require two separate responses. I'll do them opposite the order you presented them.
Your second point, paraphrased: 90% of anything is crap, that doesn't mean there's no progress. I'm totally on board with that. But in alignment today, it's not just that 90% of the work is crap, it's that the most memetically successful work is crap. It's not the raw volume of crap that's the issue so much as the memetic selection pressures.
Your first point, paraphrased: progress toward the the hard problem does not necessarily i...
sure, the thing you're looking for is the status system that jointly optimizes for alignedness with what you care about, and how legible it is to the people you are trying to convince.
a lot of unconventional people choose intentionally to ignore normie-legible status systems. this can take the form of either expert consensus or some form of feedback from reality that is widely accepted. for example, many researchers especially around these parts just don't publish at all in normal ML conferences at all, opting instead to depart into their own status systems. or they don't care whether their techniques can be used to make very successful products, or make surprisingly accurate predictions etc. instead, they substitute some alternative st...
This comment seems to implicitly assume markers of status are the only way to judge quality of work. You can just, y'know, look at it? Even without doing a deep dive, the sort of papers or blog posts which present good research have a different style and rhythm to them than the crap. And it's totally reasonable to declare that one's audience is the people who know how to pick up on that sort of style.
The bigger reason we can't entirely escape "status"-ranking systems is that there's far too much work to look at it all, so people have to choose which information sources to pay attention to.
simple ideas often require tremendous amounts of effort to make work.
corollary: oftentimes, when smart people say things that are clearly wrong, what's really going on is they're saying the closest thing in their frame that captures the grain of truth
the world is too big and confusing, so to get anything done (and to stay sane) you have to adopt a frame. each frame abstracts away a ton about the world, out of necessity. every frame is wrong, but some are useful. a frame comes with a set of beliefs about the world and a mechanism for updating those beliefs.
some frames contain within them the ability to become more correct without needing to discard the frame entirely; they are calibrated about and admit what they don't know. they change gradually as we learn more. other frames work empirically but are a...
it's (sometimes) also a mechanism for seeking domains with long positive tail outcomes, rather than low variance domains
the financial industry is a machine that lets you transmute a dollar into a reliable stream of ~4 cents a year ~forever (or vice versa). also, it gives you a risk knob you can turn that increases the expected value of the stream, but also the variance (or vice versa; you can take your risky stream and pay the financial industry to convert it into a reliable stream or lump sum)
I think the most important part of paying for goods and services is often not the raw time saved, but the cognitive overhead avoided. for instance, I'd pay much more to avoid having to spend 15 minutes understanding something complicated (assuming there is no learning value) than 15 minutes waiting. so it's plausibly more costly to have to figure out the timetable, fare system, remembering to transfer, navigating the station, than the additional time spent in transit (especially applicable in a new unfamiliar city)
agree it goes in both directions. time when you hold critical context is worth more than time when you don't. it's probably at least sometimes a good strategy to alternate between working much more than sustainable and then recovering.
my main point is this is a very different style of reasoning than what people usually do when they talk about how much their time is worth.
people around these parts often take their salary and divide it by their working hours to figure out how much to value their time. but I think this actually doesn't make that much sense (at least for research work), and often leads to bad decision making.
time is extremely non fungible; some time is a lot more valuable than other time. further, the relation of amount of time worked to amount earned/value produced is extremely nonlinear (sharp diminishing returns). a lot of value is produced in short flashes of insight that you can't just get more of by spen...
but actually diminishing returns means one more hour on the margin is much less valuable than the average implies
This importantly also goes in the other direction!
One dynamic I have noticed people often don't understand is that in a competitive market (especially in winner-takes-all-like situations) the marginal returns to focusing more on a single thing can be sharply increasing, not only decreasing.
In early-stage startups, having two people work 60 hours is almost always much more valuable than having three people work 40 hours. The costs of growing a te...
I'd be surprised if this were the case. next neurips I can survey some non native English speakers to see how many ML terms they know in English vs in their native language. I'm confident in my ability to administer this experiment on Chinese, French, and German speakers, which won't be an unbiased sample of non-native speakers, but hopefully still provides some signal.
only 2 people walked away without answering (after saying yes initially); they were not counted as yes or no. another several people refused to even answer, but this was also quite rare. the no responders seemed genuinely confused, as opposed to dismissive.
feel free to replicate this experiment at ICML or ICLR or next neurips.
not sure, i didn't keep track of this info. an important data point is that because essentially all ML literature is in english, non-anglophones generally either use english for all technical things, or at least codeswitch english terms into their native language. for example, i'd bet almost all chinese ML researchers would be familiar with the term CNN and it would be comparatively rare for people to say 卷积神经网络. (some more common terms like 神经网络 or 模型 are used instead of their english counterparts - neural network / model - but i'd be shocked if people di...
the specific thing i said to people was something like:
excuse me, can i ask you a question to help settle a bet? do you know what AGI stands for? [if they say yes] what does it stand for? [...] cool thanks for your time
i was careful not to say "what does AGI mean".
most people who didn't know just said "no" and didn't try to guess. a few said something like "artificial generative intelligence". one said "amazon general intelligence" (??). the people who answered incorrectly were obviously guessing / didn't seem very confident in the answer.
if they see...
I decided to conduct an experiment at neurips this year: I randomly surveyed people walking around in the conference hall to ask whether they had heard of AGI
I found that out of 38 respondents, only 24 could tell me what AGI stands for (63%)
we live in a bubble
I'm very excited about approaches to add hierarchy to SAEs - seems like an important step forward. In general, approaches that constraint latents in various ways that let us have higher L0 without reconstruction becoming trivial seem exciting.
I think it would be cool to get follow up work on bigger LMs. It should also be possible to do matryoshka with block size = 1 efficiently with some kernel tricks, which would be cool.
I won't claim to be immune to peer pressure but at least on the epistemic front I think I have a pretty legible track record of believing things that are not very popular in the environments I've been in.
a medium with less limitations is strictly better for making good art, but it's also harder to identify good art among the sea of bad art because the medium alone is no longer as good a signal of quality
to be clear, a "winter/slowdown" in my typology is more about the vibes and could only be a few years counterfactual slowdown. like the dot-com crash didn't take that long for companies like Amazon or Google to recover from, but it was still a huge vibe shift
also to further clarify this is not an update I've made recently, I'm just making this post now as a regular reminder of my beliefs because it seems good to have had records of this kind of thing (though everyone who has heard me ramble about this irl can confirm I've believed sometime like this for a while now)
also a lot of people will suggest that alignment people are discredited because they all believed AGI was 3 years away, because surely that's the only possible thing an alignment person could have believed. I plan on pointing to this and other statements similar in vibe that I've made over the past year or two as direct counter evidence against that
(I do think a lot of people will rightly lose credibility for having very short timelines, but I think this includes a big mix of capabilities and alignment people, and I think they will probably lose more credibility than is justified because the rest of the world will overupdate on the winter)
i'm happy to grant that the 0.1% is just a fermi estimate and there's a +/- one OOM error bar around it. my point still basically stands even if it's 1%.
i think there are also many factors in the other direction that just make it really hard to say whether 0.1% is an under or overestimate.
for example, market capitalization is generally an overestimate of value when there are very large holders. tesla is also a bit of a meme stock so it's most likely trading above fundamental value.
my guess is most things sold to the public sector probably produce less econ... (read more)