All of mathnerd314's Comments + Replies

So the rent it pays is something like when you put up a sign "DO NOT DISTURB - AUTOMATED GUN TURRETS INSIDE" on your apartment. It doesn't change the fact that you have to pay rent, or the dollar amount, but it means you can spend less effort on negotiating late payments, because the landlord will wait just a bit longer before kicking you out.

In terms of anticipation, it's something like "if I did it over again, I'd still have done the same thing, because my behaviors were dictated by circumstance". I guess it's sort of like timeless de... (read more)

I don't think it's pretending. They are both human, after all. Explaining away the difference in statements as situational bias (math is unpopular, so Grothendeick perceived it as hard; business is popular, so Jobs perceived it as easy) does not seem irrational to me. If we dissolve the question of blame, then why should praise be any different?

0ChristianKl
If Jobs perceived business as easy and people around him perceived him to be good at business there no difficulty in reconciling the two. Proposing a situational bias that makes the statements difficult to reconcile is strange. There no reason to rationalize the point made to be right. Beliefs have to pay rent.

I think you've pinpointed the difficulty I ran into before I decided to just post it; Grothendieck was self-effacing, while Jobs was self-aggrandizing, and there isn't really enough in common for Jobs to say something that would present him in the same light as Grothendieck. Even the quotes I did have, from other people, were kind of stretching the bounds of credulity (e.g., the Samsung quote is preceded by 'the consumer perspective is that...', and then he goes on to talk about re-marketing android as being better than apple). I guess was trying to compensate for the 'worse-than-average effect' by using a different industry, but there should be a better/quicker way to recalibrate your self-image.

0ChristianKl
Then why pretend that they are similar?

Steve Jobs, and life/death in general. Nothing too serious, just a prompt for discussion.

My post was not really designed to be followed, but more to use the collective makeup of LW as a human computational cluster / search engine / associative memory. I actually got a real response (ChristianKI), which I'm very happy about. I guess SolveIt can ban me if he really wants. (A guy named 'SolveIt'. People make themselves less human supposedly to benefit others - is it artificial intelligence or just people pretending they're intelligent? is gwern a robot? o_O)

The last paragraph was just brain-dumping my expectations for the conference. I was a bit ... (read more)

I was there 2005-2007.

I just rewrote your post to be about me / Steve Jobs instead of you / Grothendieck, see http://lesswrong.com/r/discussion/lw/lpp/a_long_comment/. Maybe you can understand what I mean about the post "mostly not being about math".

4JonahS
Right, so we did overlap, and probably interacted at least a little bit. Your rewriting feels strained to me, but regardless, the issue is of little consequence – like I said, I'll be getting into the particulars of math more soon.

As a former (3-time) MathPath student, I have the feeling I've seen you before. I must admit that it's only a feeling.

As far as Grothendieck goes, I think he is simply channeling Buddhism's concept of beginner's mind. Nothing new, really. Most quotes are null-content "yes I'm a human" type things. The main problem I have with your post is that none of it is math-specific; take out the "math" repetition, the few mentions of calculus etc., and it's simply a generic description of ability.

As far as Grothendieck goes, I think he is simply channeling Buddhism's concept of beginner's mind.

I don't have the experience that people who are serious about beginner's mind speak of how other people in their age group are much more brilliant, much more "gifted".

3JonahS
I was there in 2004, 2005 and 2006. I think that there's some overlap, but that's not all of it. The quotation is taken from a much larger document that he wrote. Maybe it's not realistic to expect people to be able to guess with so little context. Anyway, more will be forthcoming. I've said very little about what mathematical ability is in this post, it's the first of a sequence and I'll write more about things specific to mathematical in my upcoming posts. However, I'm also not sure what you mean. A large fraction of the post is about the math SAT and cognitive abilities that are more relevant to math than they are to most other activities.

And UnBBayes does computational analyses, similar to Flying Logic, except it uses Bayesian probability.

There not good evidence for the claim that reading a list of a bunch of biases improves your decision making ability. See Eliezers discussion on the hindsight bias: http://lesswrong.com/lw/il/hindsight_bias/

I checked that the procedure accounts for the biases. Hindsight bias is avoided by computing uncertainty using a regression analysis. Availability bias is avoided by using a large database with random sampling. Etc. I haven't gone through all of them, but so far the biases I've looked at can't affect the decision outcome because the human isn't direc... (read more)

0ChristianKl
In most social situations aggressiveness is bad. A woman doesn't want an aggressive boyfriend. But she usually want that her boyfriend isn't low status without any amount of dominance. If you sit in school it's good if your teacher is dominant but aggression is not a sign of a good teacher. People don't make clear estimates of costs when in high pressure situations. Instead fight/flight/freeze reactions trigger. Martial arts training removes that trigger and instead allows it's participants to make more conscious decisions about whether to fight. Being able to make conscious decisions often leads to less fights. Then I'm happy to see the outcome in this case.

The problem is that you assume that you know the relevant biases.

Wikipedia has a list; I've checked a few of them, and the rest are on my TODO list. I have that page watched so if there's a new bias I'll know.

There are often cases where you don't know why someone screws up. There are domains where it's easier to get knowledge about how much people screw up than understanding the reasons behind screwups.

Information is produced regardless, and often recorded (see e.g. Gwern's Mistakes page). So long as I myself don't screw up, which, assuming that I a... (read more)

0ChristianKl
There not good evidence for the claim that reading a list of a bunch of biases improves your decision making ability. See Eliezers discussion on the hindsight bias: http://lesswrong.com/lw/il/hindsight_bias/ I'm not so much talking about actually wearing the black belt but the psychological changes that the kind of training that makes people a black belt creates. Changes in confidence and body language. We went through many separate points and at the moment I don't know how to pull them in a good way together into one post. If you see a decent way feel free.

Conflating whether or not you could do something to stop them with finding truth makes it harder to have an accurate view of whether or not the result is true. Accepting reality for what it is helps to have an accurate perception of reality.

I'm not certain where you see conflation. I have separate storage areas for things to think about, evidence, actions, and risk/reward evaluations. They interact as described here. Things I hear about go into the "things to think about" list.

Only once you understand the territory should you go out and try

... (read more)
0ChristianKl
The problem is that you assume that know the relevant biases. There are often cases where you don't know why someone screws up. There are domains where it's easier to get knowledge about how much people screw up than understanding the reasons behind screwups. Fear produces fight or flight responses. People often fight out of fear. Aggressiveness often comes out of weakness. A karate black belt is dominant but usually not aggressive. Taller people get payed more money because being tall is a signal for social dominance. Yes.

For example, I don't want a red car because I don't want to get pulled over by the cops all the time.

The car story appears to be a myth nowadays, but that could just be due to the increased use of radar guns and better police training. Radar guns were introduced around the 1950's so all of their policemen quotes are too recent to tell.

I thought I had written all I could. What sort of things should I add?

1Vulture
I think a little more elaboration on the quicklists experiment would be appreciated, and in particular a clearer description of what you think transpired when it went "too right". For me, at least, your experimental outcome might be extremely surprising (depending on the extent of the sleep deprivation involved), but I'm not even sure yet what model I should be re-assessing.

Once upon a time I tried using what I could coin "quicklists". I took a receipt, turned it over to the back (clear side), and jotted down 5-10 things that I wanted to believe. Then I set a timer for 24 hours and, before that time elapsed, acted as if I believed those things. My experiment was too successful; by the time 24 hours were up I had ended up in a different county, with little recollection of what I'd been doing, and some policemen asking me pointed questions. (I don't believe any drugs were involved, just sleep deprivation, but I can't ... (read more)

1[anonymous]
I would like to read more about this. Would you consider writing it up?

Humans are biased to overrate bad human behavior as a cause for mistakes.

If a crocodile bites off your hand, it's generally your fault. If the hurricane hits your house and kills you, it's your fault for not evacuating fast enough. In general, most causes are attributed to humans, because that allows actually considering alternatives. If you just attributed everything to, say, God, then it doesn't give any ideas. I take this a step further: everything is my fault. So if I hear about someone else doing something stupid, I try to figure out how I could ha... (read more)

0mathnerd314
The car story appears to be a myth nowadays, but that could just be due to the increased use of radar guns and better police training. Radar guns were introduced around the 1950's so all of their policemen quotes are too recent to tell.
0ChristianKl
Conflating whether or not you could do something to stop them with finding truth makes it harder to have an accurate view of whether or not the result is true. Accepting reality for what it is helps to have an accurate perception of reality. Only once you understand the territory should you go out and try to change things. If you do the second step before the first you mess up your epistemology. You fall for a bunch of human biases evolved for finding out whether the neighboring tribe might attack your tribe that aren't useful for clear understanding of todays complex world. I spoke about incentives. Researchers have an incentive to publish in prestigious journals and optimize their research practices for doing so. The case with blogs isn't much different. Successful bloggers write polarizing posts that get people talking and engage with the story even there would be a way to be more accurate and less polarizing. The incentives go towards "spectual". Scott H Young whom I respect and who's a nice fellow wrote his post against spaced repetition and still know recommends now in a later post the usage of Anki for learning vocabulary. It's not about remembering it's about being able to make estimates even when you aren't sure. And you can calibrate your error intervals. Aggression is not the central word. Status and dominance also appear. People do a bunch of things to appear higher status. One of the studies in question suggested that it makes woman more attracted to you measured by the physical distance in conversation. Another one suggest that attraction based on photo ratings. I actually did the comparison on hotOrNot. I tested a blue shirt against a red shirt. Photoshopped so nothing besides the color with different. For my photo blue scored more attractive than red despite the studies saying that red is the color that raises attractiveness. The replication rates for cancer biology seem to be even worse than for psychology if you trust the Amgen researchers

Exhibiting symptoms often considered as signs of mental illness. For example, this says 38.6% of general people have hallucinations. This says 40% of general people had paranoid thoughts. Presumably these groups aren't exactly the same, so there you go: between 0.5 and 0.8 of the general population. You can probably pull together some more studies with similar results for other symptoms.

Given replication rates of scientific studies a single study might not be enough.

Enough for what? My question is whether my hair stylist saying "Shaving makes the hair grow back thicker." is more reliable than http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ar.1090370405/abstract. In general, the scientists have put more thought into their answer and have conducted actual experiments, so they are more reliable. I might revise that opinion if I find evidence of bias, such as a study being funded by a corporation that finds favorable results for thei... (read more)

0ChristianKl
Humans are biased to overrate bad human behavior as a cause for mistakes. The decent thing is to orient yourself on whether similar studies replicate. Regardless every publish-or-perish paper has an inherent bias to find spectacular results. Let's say wearning red every day. Thinking that those Israeli judges don't give people parole because they don't have enough sugar in their blood right before mealtime. Going and giving every judge a candy before hearing every case to make it fair isn't warranted. That's fixable by training Fermi estimates. It's a reference to the controversy about whether washing your hands primes you to be more moral. It's a experimental social science result that failed to replicate.

I don't have experience with those, but I'll recommend Graphviz as a free (and useful) alternative. See e.g. http://k0s.org/mozilla/workflow.svg

The simple answer is to ask someone else, or better yet a group; if D is small, then D^2 or D^4 will be infinitesimal. However, delusions are "infectious" (see Mass hysteria), so this is not really a good method unless you're mostly isolated from the main population.

The more complicated answer is to track your beliefs and the evidence for each belief, and then when you get new evidence for a belief, add it to the old evidence and re-evaluate. For example, replacing an old wives' tale with a peer-reviewed study is (usually) a no-brainer. On the ot... (read more)

9ChristianKl
Given replication rates of scientific studies a single study might not be enough. Single studies that go against your intuition are not enough reason to update. Especially if you only read the abstract. No need to get people to wash their hands before you do a business deal with them.
5Richard_Kennaway
What sort of beliefs are you talking about here? Are you classifying simply being wrong about something as a "delusional disorder"?

It's already random; replacing randomness with more randomness doesn't help except for mixing in new tasks. I went through ~50 tasks today, so it's not really that bad; just that I feel like some tasks should have more time dedicated. "Is putting animals in captivity an improvement?" is not the sort of question you want to dash off in 2 minutes. (Final answer: list of various animal rights groups).

The real problem is the list keeps growing longer; I'm starting to run into O(n^2) behavior in my text editor. It's not really designed for handling a FIFO queue. I've been staring at TaskWarrior, which might be adapted for doing the things I want.

So more recently I've been using a big 6000-line text file, it has all of my TODO's as well as some URL's. I randomized the order a while ago and now I just go through them. I've stalled on that (actually doing things is hard, particularly when they're vague things like "post story"), so I might go back to feed reading; I experimented a bit with TinyTinyRSS but Feedly is probably a better choice.

2A1987dM
Re-shuffle!

Well, taxation has the threat of violence, in that if you don't pay your taxes you will eventually be caught and sentenced to jail for tax evasion... hmm, maybe I should do a "The definition of X" series. They should really be wiki pages though, not posts...

0Yosarian2
Yeah, I understand the logic behind it, but still most people would not include "taxation" within their definition of "violence". Many people would consider taxation by a democratically elected government to be legitimate; people may not like it, but they don't consider it an act of violence. And it's worth noting that that libertarian definition does not consider it "violence" to, say, have someone arrested for violating a contract, or for theft, ect. Basically, the word is being used in a non-standard way that hides a number of assumptions that not everyone would necessarily agree with. I tend to think it's better to clearly lay out what your assumptions are and how you came to them when making an argument.

It sounds like we're in violent agreement here. I've already verified experimentally that writings by mathnerd314_1998 are clear to mathnerd314_2009. My brain doesn't change that much over time.

Instead, I have two other questions:

  1. can mathnerd314_2014 understand Gunnar_Zarncke_2014 on the same level he understands mathnerd314_1998?

  2. If both mathnerd314_2014 and mathnerd314_2020 independently write down definitions, will they be textually different?

My hypothesis is that #1 is "no", because internal organization of concepts varies dramatically from person to person, and that #2 is "yes", because people do change over time.

0Gunnar_Zarncke
I agree. But first of all you can likely better understand me than yourself when you were less than ten years old. Surely less than 5 but possibly even less than when you were less then 15. We often underestimate how much we change over time (there must be studies confirming this). And then it is rather likely that you produce differnt textual definitions on the same day a) when you are in different mind states (sleepy<->alert, intoxicated<->clean, happy<->sad), b) in different social circumstances, c) likely even in differnent locations. This is because the context these circumstances provide leaks into your speach and your definitions.

Well, there's a tricky thing in mathematics called "the law of excluded middle". Using the law, you can e.g. prove that a implies b is logically equivalent to (not a) or b. It also lets you do existence proofs by proving it isn't possible for there to be no examples. So in classical logic every statement is confused with its double negation.

I generally try to use intuitionistic logic though, where a->b is not logically equivalent to anything else and double negations have to be written out. You do have , but that only goes one direction and re... (read more)

Indeed, it's very depressing. I doubt I'll ever be able to understand other people, but I do have some hope for internal consistency in my usage (so mathnerd314_February2014 writes things that seem comprehensible to mathnerd314_July2020). I've collected my early 1990's writings and they all sort of "click" into place, in that I understand them well enough to rewrite them word-for-word. Perhaps by writing down definitions for my words I'll be able to see how the concepts have evolved over time (or that they haven't changed).

0Gunnar_Zarncke
If you are really a math nerd, then you might notice that things (human language) are not as hopeless as it looks. Imagine that words (the identifiable mental identities behind the utterable sylable sequences) are entities that the human brain uses to trigger some (but mostly not all) of the aspects of the concept (the mental identities of human thought) that is intended to be communicated by an utterance (or written sentence). Words are only parts of the aggregate communication. They are less building blocks (implying compositionality) and more shards. Each shard adding meaning. Words must almost always be used together. This is because each word is chosen by the brain to add as much meaning to the already output speech as possible by selecting that word which implies the most features (neuronal activation patterns) of the concept to be transported currently or next (that is the reason we can choose shorter more ambiguous words when the context implies them). The fact that we try to give precise meanings to words doesn't mean that precise definitions are necessary (nor efficient) for communication. Having precise definitions has another benefit: It allows for the relationship between words and complex concepts to be easier acquired. And by this route more complex concepts can be aquired and communicated more efficiently. The conclusion is that you don't need definitions for your words to communicate more clearly with your future self. It is sufficient to have a sufficiently large corpus of text of yourself. That would allow you to infer more about your earlier self than a few condensed definitions.

You can always be wrong. Even when it's theoretically impossible to be wrong, you can still be wrong

You missed the context, which is when someone claims "This can't be wrong." Rule #1 clearly states the definition can be wrong. On the other hand, there are different levels of wrongness. Sure, these rules are most likely wrong and incomplete, but they are more correct than having no rules at all. And the reason definitions aren't the best way to give semantics is because we already have a better semantics, namely the "similarity cluster&qu... (read more)

1Gunnar_Zarncke
First thing I did was print it on a A4 page and tape it in plain view.

Indeed, but one of Eliezer's points was that mathematical objects, e.g. the set of prime numbers, don't need labels. I can write without giving it a name at all, or just call it P.

If you require every word you use to have a definition, and ensure the definitions follow these rules, and then consistently use the words according to their definitions, then it follows that you are using the words correctly and not wrongly.

So I guess that could be the maxims for writing:

  • know the definition of every word you use

  • ensure the definitions follow these 17 rules

  • use words according to their definition

A prime number n is a number whose only factors are multiplicative units and n*a multiplicative unit (and these two sets are distinct). Typical examples include 2, 3, 5, 7 and 11. Less-typical examples include -2 and 1+i; they are often excluded from consideration in mathematics.

2Viliam_Bur
"whose only factors" -- that's where you are hiding the negation ("only" = "there is no other")
0[anonymous]
Well done (although it is still a useful binary category; numbers are either prime or composite, semiprimes be damned).

I took the survey; apparently I get karma for that? :-)

I look at it in terms of efficiency; sites like reddit are simply inefficient ways to communicate. They are good at making random connections and exploring new subject areas, and that is what I use them for: if I have heard of a subject, but don't know about it, I find a subreddit on the topic and subscribe.

As a tool for discourse, however, there is much to be desired; communication is lossy (many posts are simply not upvoted enough to be seen) and interspersed with noise (unrelated but "viral" posts). Google Reader is almost lossless; it maintai... (read more)

0thespymachine
Thanks to this, I'm now officially using Feedly (since Google Reader is dead).
0Vaniver
One of the important features about Google Reader is that it's generally one-way; yes, I could comment on the original items for many of them, but I have way less desire to than LW posts. A related massive productivity gain from Google Reader is that it is very easy to make it only interfere with your day once at a scheduled time, and you can just forget about the sites for the rest of the time. There's no routinely checking to see if something new has shown up, with the associated variable reinforcement, but that means it's not as appropriate for media where two-way communication is frequent and opportunities are transient.
2matias
Assuming of course you use reddit for communication, for me it would be more about finding interesting pieces of information and seeing the analysis of other people, by the time I get to it most of the discussion has already occurred. For me personally Google Reader does not make more more productive, it is just another way to waste time.