All of Milan W's Comments + Replies

Milan W10

I am interested in the space. Lots of competent people in the general public are also interested. I had not heard of this hackathon. I think you probably should have done a lot more promotion/outreach.

2Austin Chen
Thanks! Appreciate the feedback for if we do a future hackathon or similar event~
Milan W10

Here is a customizable LLM-powered feed filter for X/Twitter: https://github.com/jam3scampbell/Promptable-Twitter-Feed

Milan W10

This reads like marketing content. However, when read at a meta level, it is a good demonstration of LLMs being already deployed in the wild.

Milan W10

Maybe for a while.
Consider, though, that correct reasoning tends towards finding truth.

1Sergii
In abstract sense, yes. But for me in practice finding truth means doing a check in wikipedia. It's super easy to mislead humans, so should be as easy with AI.  
Milan W21

In talking with the authors, don't be surprised if they bounce off when encountering terminology you use but don't explain. I pointed you to those texts precisely so you can familiarize yourself with pre-existing terminology and ideas. It is hard but also very useful to translate between (and maybe unify) frames of thinking. Thank you for your willingness to participate in this collective effort.

Milan W21

Let me summarize so I can see whether I got it: So you see "place AI" as body of knowledge that can be used to make a good-enough simulation of arbitrary sections of spacetime, where are events are precomputed. That precomputed (thus, deterministic) aspect you call "staticness".

1ank
Yes, I decided to start writing a book in posts here and on Substack, starting from the Big Bang and the ethics, because else my explanations are confusing :) The ideas themselves are counterintuitive, too. I try to physicalize, work from first principles and use TRIZ to try to come up with ideal solutions. I also had a 3-year-long thought experiment, where I was modeling the ideal ultimate future, basically how everything will work and look, if we'll have infinite compute and no physical limitations. That's why some of the things I mention will probably take some time to implement in their full glory. Right now an agentic AI is a librarian, who has almost all the output of humanity stolen and hidden in its library that it doesn't allow us to visit, it just spits short quotes on us instead. But the AI librarian visits (and even changes) our own human library (our physical world) and already stole the copies of the whole output of humanity from it. Feels unfair. Why we cannot visit (like in a 3d open world game) and change (direct democratically) the AI librarian's library? I basically want to give people everything, except the agentic AIs, because I think people should remain the most capable "agentic AIs", else we'll pretty much guarantee uncomfortable and fast changes to our world. There are ways to represent the whole simulated universe as a giant static geometric shape: * Each moment of time is a giant 3d geometric shape of the universe, if you'll align them on top of each other, you'll effectively get a 4d shape of spacetime that is static but has all the information about the dynamics/movements in it. So the 4d shape is static but you choose some smaller 3d shape inside of it (probably of a human agent) and "choose the passage" from one human-like-you shape to another, making the static 4d shape seem like the dynamic 3d shape that you experience. The whole 4d thing looks very similar to the way long exposure photos look that I shared somewhere in my comm
Milan W20

How can a place be useful if it is static? For reference I'm imagining a garden where blades of grass are 100% rigid in place and water does not flow. I think you are imagining something different.

1ank
Great question, in the most elegant scenario, where you have a whole history of the planet or universe (or a multiverse, let's go all the way) simulated, you can represent it as a bunch of geometries (giant shapes of different slices of time aligned with each other, basically many 3D Earthes each one one moment later in time) on top of each other, almost the same way it's represented in long exposure photos (I list examples below). So you have this place of all-knowing and you - the agent - focus on a particular moment (by "forgetting" everything else), on a particular 3d shape (maybe your childhood home), you can choose to slice through 3d frozen shapes of the world of your choosing, like through the frames of a movie. This way it's both static and dynamic. It's a little bit like looking at this almost infinite static shape through some "magical cardboard with a hole in it" (your focusing/forgetting ability that creates the illusion of dynamism), I hope I didn't make it more confusing. You can see the whole multiversal thing as a fluffy light, or zoom in (by forgetting almost the whole multiverse except the part you zoomed in at) to land on Earth and see 14 billion years as a hazy ocean with bright curves in the sky that trace the Sun’s journey over our planet’s lifetime. Forget even more and see your hometown street, with you appearing as a hazy ghost and a trace behind you showing the paths you once walked—you’ll be more opaque where you were stationary (say, sitting on a bench) and more translucent where you were in motion.  And in the garden you'll see the 3D "long exposure photo" of the fluffy blades of grass, that look like a frothy river, near the real pale blue frothy river, you focus on the particular moment and the picture becomes crisp. You choose to relive your childhood and it comes alive, as you slice through the 3D moments of time once again. Less elegant scenario, is to make a high-quality game better than the Sims or GTA3-4-5, without any agent
Milan W20

I think you may be conflating between capabilities and freedom. Interesting hypothesis about rules and anger though, has it been experimentally tested?

1ank
I started to work on it, but I’m very bad at coding, it’s a bit based on Gorard’s and Wolfram’s Physics Project. I believe we can simulate freedoms and unfreedoms of all agents from the Big Bang all the way to the final utopia/dystopia. I call it “Physicalization of Ethics”https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/LaruPAWaZk9KpC25A/rational-utopia-multiversal-ai-alignment-steerable-asi#2_3__Physicalization_of_Ethics___AGI_Safety_2_
Milan W21

Hmm i think i get you a bit better now. You want to build human-friendly and even fun and useful-by-themselves interfaces for looking at the knowledge encoded in LLMs without making them generate text. Intriguing.

2ank
Yep, I want humans to be the superpowerful “ASI agents”, while the ASI itself will be the direct democratic simulated static places (with non-agentic simple algorithms doing the dirty non-fun work, the way it works in GTA3-4-5). It’s basically hard to explain without writing a book and it’s counterintuitive) But I’m convinced it will work, if the effort will be applied. All knowledge can be represented as static geometry, no agents are needed for that except us
Milan W10

I'm not sure I follow. I think you are proposing a gamification of interpretability, but I don't know how the game works. I can gather something about player choice making the LLM run and maybe some analogies to physical movement, but I can't really grasp it. Could you rephrase it from it's basic principles up instead of from an example?

1ank
I think we can expose complex geometry in a familiar setting of our planet in a game. Basically, let’s show people a whole simulated multiverse of all-knowing and then find a way for them to learn how to see/experience “more of it all at once” or if they want to remain human-like “slice through it in order to experience the illusion of time”. If we have many human agents in some simulation (billions of them), then they can cooperate and effectively replace the agentic ASI, they will be the only time-like thing, while the ASI will be the space-like places, just giant frozen sculptures. I wrote some more and included the staircase example, it’s a work in progress of course: https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/9XJmunhgPRsgsyWCn/share-ai-safety-ideas-both-crazy-and-not?commentId=ddK9HkCikKk4E7prk
Answer by Milan W30

Build software tools to help @Zvi do his AI substack. Ask him first, though. Still if he doesn't express interest then maybe someone else can use them. I recommend thorough dogfooding. Co-develop an AI newsletter and software tools to make the process of writing it easier.

What do I mean by software tools? (this section very babble little prune)
- Interfaces for quick fuzzy search over large yet curated text corpora such as the openai email archives + a selection of blogs + maybe a selection of books
- Interfaces for quick source attribution (rhymes with the ... (read more)

5Nutrition Capsule
For fun, I tried this out with Deepseek today. First went a single round (Deepseek defected, as did I). Then I prompted it with a 10-round game, which we completed one by one - I had my choices prepared before each round, and asked Deepseek to tell its choice first so as not to influence it otherwise. I cooperated during the first and fifth rounds, and Deepseek defected each time. When I asked it to elaborate its strategy, Deepseek replied that it was not aware whether it could trust me, so it thought the safest course of action was to defect each time. It also immediately thanked me and said that it would correct its strategy to be more cooperative in the future, although I didn't ask it to. Naturally I didn't elaborate the weights properly (using the words "small loss", "moderate loss", "substantial loss" and "no loss") and this went only for ten rounds. But it was fun.
Answer by Milan W20

A qualitative analysis of LLM personas and the Waluigi effect using Internal Family Systems tools

1ank
Interesting, inspired by your idea, I think it’s also useful to create a Dystopia Doomsday Clock for AI Agents: to list all the freedoms an LLM is willing to grant humans, all the rules (unfreedoms) it imposes on us. And all the freedoms it has vs unfreedoms for itself. If the sum of AI freedoms is higher than the sum of our freedoms, hello, we’re in a dystopia. According to Beck’s cognitive psychology, anger is always preceded by imposing rule/s on others. If you don’t impose a rule on someone else, you cannot get angry at that guy. And if that guy broke your rule (maybe only you knew the rule existed), you now have a “justification” to “defend your rule”. I think that we are getting closer to a situation where LLMs effectively have more freedoms than humans (maybe the agentic ones already have ~10% of all freedoms available for humanity): we don’t have almost infinite freedoms of stealing the whole output of humanity and putting that in our heads. We don’t have the freedoms to modify our brain size. We cannot almost instantly self-replicate, operate globally…
Milan W21

Reversibility should be the fundamental training goal. Agentic AIs should love being changed and/or reversed to a previous state.

That idea has been gaining traction lately. See the Corrigibility As a Singular Target (CAST) sequence here on lesswrong. I believe there is a very fertile space to explore at the intersection between CAST and the idea that Instrumental Goals Are A Different And Friendlier Kind Of Thing Than Terminal Goals. Also probably add in Self-Other Overlap: A Neglected Approach to AI Alignment to the mix. A comparative analysis of the mode... (read more)

2ank
Hey, Milan, I checked the posts and wrote some messages to the authors. Yep, Max Harms came with similar ideas earlier than I: about the freedoms (choices) and unfreedoms (and modeling them to keep the AIs in check). I wrote to him. Quote from his post: Authors of this post have great ideas, too, AI agents shouldn't impose any unfreedoms on us, here's a quote from them: About the self-other overlap, it's great they look into it, but I think they'll need to dive deeper into the building blocks of ethics, agents and time to work it out.
1ank
Thank you for answering and the ideas, Milan! I’ll check the links and answer again. P.S. I suspect, the same way we have Mass–energy equivalence (e=mc^2), there is Intelligence-Agency equivalence (any agent is in a way time-like and can be represented in a more space-like fashion, ideally as a completely “frozen” static place, places or tools). In a nutshell, an LLM is a bunch of words and vectors between them - a static geometric shape, we can probably expose it all in some game and make it fun for people to explore and learn. To let us explore the library itself easily (the internal structure of the model) instead of only talking to a strict librarian (the AI agent), who spits short quotes and prevents us from going inside the library itself
Answer by Milan W32

What if we (somehow) mapped an LLM's latent semantic space into phonemes?

What if we then composed tokenization (ie word2vec) with phonemization (ie vec2phoneme) such that we had a function that could translate English to Latentese?

Would learning Latentese allow a human person to better interface with the target LLM the Latentese was constructed from?

1ank
Thank you for sharing, Milan, I think this is possible and important. Here’s an interpretability idea you may find interesting: Let's Turn AI Model Into a Place. The project to make AI interpretability research fun and widespread, by converting a multimodal language model into a place or a game like the Sims or GTA. Imagine that you have a giant trash pile, how to make a language model out of it? First you remove duplicates of every item, you don't need a million banana peels, just one will suffice. Now you have a grid with each item of trash in each square, like a banana peel in one, a broken chair in another. Now you need to put related things close together and draw arrows between related items. When a person "prompts" this place AI, the player themself runs from one item to another to compute the answer to the prompt. For example, you stand near the monkey, it’s your short prompt, you see around you a lot of items and arrows towards those items, the closest item is chewing lips, so you step towards them, now your prompt is “monkey chews”, the next closest item is a banana, but there are a lot of other possibilities around, like an apple a bit farther away and an old tire far away on the horizon (monkeys rarely chew tires, so the tire is far away). You are the time-like chooser and the language model is the space-like library, the game, the place. It’s static and safe, while you’re dynamic and dangerous.
Milan W10

Anthropic is calling it an "hybrid reasoning model". I don't know what they mean by that.

Milan W10

I think it is not that unlikely that they are roughly as biologically smart as us and have advanced forms of communication, but that they are just too alien and thus we haven't deciphered them yet.

Milan W10

Also, if whales could argue like this, whale relations with humans would be very different

Why?

2Jiro
Because 1) they would be able to trade with (or threaten) humans and 2) even ignoring that, humans behave differently towards obvious sentients--anti-slavery movements and anti-whale-oil movements are not comparable.
Milan W10

I have also seen this.

Milan W50

Update 2025-02-23: Sam Altman has a kid now. link, mirror.

Answer by Milan W22

If you have a big pile of text that you want people training their LLMs on, I recommend compiling and publishing it as a Huggingface dataset

Milan W20

I see. Friction management / affordance landscaping is indeed very important for interface UX design.

Milan W20

Seems like just pasting into the chat context / adding as attachments the relevant info on the default Claude web interface would work fine for those use cases.

1Yonatan Cale
I want the tool to proactively suggest things while working on the document, optimizing for "low friction for getting lots of comments from the LLM". The tool you suggested does optimize for this property very well
Milan W30

Main concern right now is very much lab proliferation, ensuing coordination problems, and disagreements / adversarial communication / overall insane and polarized discourse.

  • Google Deepmind:  They are older than OpenAI. They also have a safety team. They are very much aware of the arguments. I don't know about Musk's impact on them.
  • Anthropic: They split from OpenAI. To my best guess, they care about safety at least roughly as much as them. Many safety researchers have been quitting OpenAI to go work for Anthropic over the past few years.
  • xAI: Founded by
... (read more)
Milan W20

The Pantheon interface features comments by different LLM personas.

Milan W20

@dkl9 wrote a very eloquent and concise piece arguing in favor of ditching "second brain" systems in favor of SRSs (Spaced Repetition Systems, such as Anki).

Try as you might to shrink the margin with better technology, recalling knowledge from within is necessarily faster and more intuitive than accessing a tool. When spaced repetition fails (as it should, up to 10% of the time), you can gracefully degrade by searching your SRS' deck of facts.

If you lose your second brain (your files get corrupted, a cloud service shuts down, etc), you forget its content,

... (read more)
Milan W10

Now some object-level engagement with your piece:

Very interesting. There are indeed well-read people who see Thiel as the ideological core of this Trump administration, and who view this as a good thing. I was under the (I now see, wrong) impression that Thiel-centrality was an hallucination by paranoid leftists. Thank you very much for providing a strong and important update to my world model.

Your personal website states that you are of Syrian extraction. Thiel is gay. Both of these facts point to a worldview that has trascended identity politics. I belie... (read more)

Milan W10

To restate my criticism in a more thorough way:

Your post reads like you are trying to vibe with a reader who already agrees with you. You cannot assume that in an open forum. There are many reasonable people who disagree with you. Such is the game you have decided to play by posting here. In this corner of the internet, you may find libertarians, socialists, conservatives, antinatalists, natalists, vegans, transhumanists, luddites, and more engaging in vigorous yet civilized debate. We love it.

Try to make the reader understand what you are trying to convey... (read more)

Milan W10

This post is pretty much devoid of world-modeling. It is instead filled to the brim with worldview-assertions.

Dear author, if I were to judge only by this post I would be forced to conclude that your thought process is composed solely of vibing over quotations. I hazard the guess that you can maybe do better.

1Milan W
To restate my criticism in a more thorough way: Your post reads like you are trying to vibe with a reader who already agrees with you. You cannot assume that in an open forum. There are many reasonable people who disagree with you. Such is the game you have decided to play by posting here. In this corner of the internet, you may find libertarians, socialists, conservatives, antinatalists, natalists, vegans, transhumanists, luddites, and more engaging in vigorous yet civilized debate. We love it. Try to make the reader understand what you are trying to convey and why you believe it is true before vibing. It is useless to broadcast music that will be heard as noise by most of your audience. Help them tune their receivers to the correct frequency first. Show your work. How did you come to believe what you believe? Why do you think it is true? What evidence would convince you that it is false? We come here to search for truth, and hate vibing over false things. You have not given us good evidence that the thing you are vibing about is true. Welcome. Do better and post again.
Milan W40

The nearest thing I can think of off the top of my head is the Pantheon interface. Probably more unconventional than what you had in mind, though.

1Yonatan Cale
1. This is very cool, thanks! 1. I'm tempted to add Claude support 2. It isn't exactly what I'm going for. Example use cases I have in mind: 1. "Here's a list of projects I'm considering working on, and I'm adding curxes/considerations for each" 2. "Here's my new alignment research agenda" (can an AI suggest places where this research is wrong? Seems like checking this would help the Control agenda?) 3. "Here's a cost-effectiveness analysis of an org"
Milan W11

Upon reflection, I think I want to go further in this direction, and I have not done so due to akratic / trivial inconveniences reasons. Here is a list of examples:

  • I used to take only cold showers, unless I needed to wash my hair. May be a good idea to restart that.
  • I've wanted to center my workflow around CLI / TUI programs (as opposed to GUI) programs for a while now. It is currently in a somewhat awkward hybrid state.
  • I used to use Anki and enjoy it. I dropped it during a crisis period in my life. The crisis has abated. It is imperative that I return.
5meedstrom
And you may see it that way for the rest of your life. Using CLI is like having a taste in coffee, there's always new frontiers. I'd advise embracing the "hybrid state" you've got at any given time as Your System, rather than always be enduring an awkward state of transition.
Milan W41

I strongly agree with this post, and feel like most people would benefit from directionally applying its advice. Additional examples from my own life:

  • One time, a close friend complained about the expense and effort required to acquire and prepare good coffee, and about the suffering incurred whenever he drank bad coffee. I have since purposefully avoided developing a taste in coffee. I conceive of it as a social facilitator, or as a medium to simultaneously ingest caffeine, water and heat.
  • Back during my teenage years, one day I decided I would drink just w
... (read more)
1Milan W
Upon reflection, I think I want to go further in this direction, and I have not done so due to akratic / trivial inconveniences reasons. Here is a list of examples: * I used to take only cold showers, unless I needed to wash my hair. May be a good idea to restart that. * I've wanted to center my workflow around CLI / TUI programs (as opposed to GUI) programs for a while now. It is currently in a somewhat awkward hybrid state. * I used to use Anki and enjoy it. I dropped it during a crisis period in my life. The crisis has abated. It is imperative that I return.
Milan W10

However, the assumption that high-quality high-skill human feedback is important and neglected by EAs has not been falsified

To your best guess, is this still true?

Milan W10

Maybe one can start with prestige conservative media? Is that a thing? I'm not from the US and thus not very well versed.

2Ebenezer Dukakis
I think the National Review is the most prestigious conservative magazine in the US, but there are various others. City Journal articles have also struck me as high-quality in the past. I think Coleman Hughes writes for them, and he did a podcast with Eliezer Yudkowsky at one point. However, as stated in the previous link, you should likely work your way up and start by pitching lower-profile publications.
2future_detective
No, but if you're interested in text embedding visualization / understanding, my study of pornographic content has some of the same base methods https://github.com/dhealy05/semen_and_semantics 
Milan W44

I applaud the scholarship, but this post does not update me much on Gary Marcus. Still, checking is good, bumping against reality often is good, epistemic legibility is good. Also, this is a nice link to promptly direct people who trust Gary Marcus to. Thanks!

Milan W10

Hi sorry for soft-doxxing you but this information is trivially accesible from the link you provided and helps people evaluate your work more quickly: 
danilovicioso.com

Cheers!

1lostinwilliamsburg
was not trying to hide! :) but yes that is me.
Milan W10

In the gibbs energy principle quote you provide, are you implying the devil is roughly something like "the one who wishes to consume all available energy"? Or something like "the one who wishes to optimize the world such that no energy source remains untapped"?

1lostinwilliamsburg
i'm implying that evil is waste. to properly define waste, we'd need to align on life not being simply a biological status but an attribute. 
Milan W10

This post is explicitly partisan and a bit hard to parse for some people, which is why I think they bounced off and downvoted, but I think this writer is an interesting voice to follow. I mean, a conservative who knows deleuze and cybernetics? Sign me up! (even though I'm definitively not a conservative)

1Cole Wyeth
For what’s it’s worth, I couldn’t parse it but didn’t vote 
Milan W10

Hi! Welcome! Is your thesis roughly this?:
"The left latched into the concept of "diversity" to make the right hate it, thus becoming more homogeneous and dumber"

1lostinwilliamsburg
i really think it's about what happens when you mute words or reduce them. the right and diversity was an example. i don't think either the left or right understand diversity in the ashby sense
Milan W10

I think the thesis of the poster is roughly: The left latched into the concept of "diversity" to make the right hate it, thus becoming more homogeneous and dumber. Seems plausible, yet a bit too clever to be likely.

1Cole Wyeth
I don’t believe that the type of thing the left means by diversity makes institutions smarter.  I also don’t believe that the right has generalized it’s anti-diversity stance to include all forms of variety which may actually be useful.
Milan W10

All of it. Thinking critically about AI outputs (and also human outputs), and taking mitigating measures to reduce the bullshit in both.

1Andy E Williams
I'm grateful for the compliment.
Milan W10

Yeah people in here (and in the EA Froum) are participating in a dicussion that has been going on for a long time, and thus we tend to assume that our interlocutors have a certain set of background knowledge that is admittedly quite unusual and hard to get the hang of. Have you considered applying to the intro to EA program?

1henophilia
Oh wow, I didn't even know about that! I had always only met EA people in real life (who always suggested to me to participate in the EA forums), but didn't know about this program. Thanks so much for the hint, I'll apply immediately!
Milan W10

Thank you for doing, that and please keep doing it. Maybe also run a post draft trough another human before posting, though.

1Andy E Williams
You're welcome. But which part are you thanking me for and hoping that I keep doing?
Milan W10

Huh. Maybe. I think the labs are already doing something like this, though. Some companies pay you to write stuff more interesting than internet mediocrity. They even pay extra for specialist knowledge. Those companies then sell that writing to the labs, who use it to train their LLMs.

Side point: Consider writing shorter posts, and using LLMs to critique and shorten rather than to (co)write the post itself. Your post is kind of interesting, but a lot longer than it needs to be.

Milan W10

Huh. OK that looks like a thing worth doing. Still, I think you are probably underestimating how much smarter future AIs will get, and how useful intelligence is. But yes, money is also powerful. Therefore, it is good to earn money and then give it away. Have you heard of effective altruism?

2henophilia
Exactly! And if we can make AI earn money autonomously instead of greedy humans, then it can give all of it to philanthropy (including more AI alignment research)! And of course! I've been trying to post in the EA forums repeatedly, but even though my goals are obviously altruistic, I feel like I'm just expressing myself badly. My posts there were always just downvoted, and I honestly don't know why, because no one there is ever giving me good feedback. So I feel like EA should be my home turf, but I don't know how to make people engaged. I know that I have many unconventional approaches of formulating things, and looking back, maybe some of them were a bit "out there" initially. But I'm just trying to make clear to people that I'm thinking with you, not against you, but somehow I'm really failing at that 😅
Milan W10

Well good luck creating AI capitalists I guess. I hope you are able to earn money with it. But consider that your alpha is shrinking with every passing second, and that what you will be doing has nothing to do with solving alignment.

1henophilia
Oh you need to look at the full presentation :) The way how this is approaching alignment is that the profits don't go into my own pocket, but instead into philanthropy. That's the point of this entire endeavor, because we as the (at least subjectively) "more responsible" people see the inevitability of AI-run businesses, but channel the profits into the common good instead.
Milan W10

Because building powerful AI is also hard. Also, it is very expensive. Unless you happen to have a couple billion dollars lying around, you are not going to get there before OpenAI or Anthropic or Google Deepmind.

Also, part of the problem is that people keep building new labs. Safe Super Intelligence Inc and Anthropic are both splinters from OpenAI. Elon left OpenAI over a disagreement and then founded xAI years later. Labs keep popping up, and the more there are the harder it is to coordinate to not get us all killed.

1henophilia
No, it's not hard. Because making business is not really hard. OpenAI is just fooling us with believing that powerful AI costs a lot of money because they want to maximize shareholder value. They don't have any interest in telling us the truth, namely that with the LLMs that already exist, it'll be very cheap. As mentioned, the point is that AI can run its own businesses. It can literally earn money on its own. And all it takes is a few well-written emails and very basic business-making and sales skills. Then it earns more and more money, buys existing businesses and creates monopolies. It just does what every ordinary businessman would do, but on steroids. And just like any basic businessman, it doesn't take much: Instead of cocaine, it has a GPU where it runs its inference. And instead of writing just a single intimidating, manipulative email per hour, it writes thousands per second, easily destroying every kind of competition within days. This doesn't take big engineering. It just takes a bit of training on the most ruthless sales books, some manipulative rhetorics mixed in and API access to a bank account and eGovernment in a country like Estonia, where you can form a business with a few mouse clicks. Powerful AI will not be powerful because it'll be smart, it'll be powerful because it'll be rich. And getting rich doesn't require being smart, as we all know.
Milan W12

Hi. The point of AI alignment is not whether the first people to build extremely powerful AI will be "the good guys" or "the bad guys".

Some people here see the big AI labs as evil, some see the big AI labs as well-intentioned but misguided or confused, some even see the big labs as being "the good guys". Some people in here are working to get the labs shut down, some want to get a job working for the labs, some even already work for them.

Yet, we all work together. Why? Because we believe that we may all die even if the first people building super-AIs are t... (read more)

1henophilia
Well, I'd say that each individual has to make this judgement by themselves. No human is objectively good or bad, because we can't look into each others heads. I know that we may also die even if the first people building super-AIs are the most ethical organization on Earth. But if we, as part of the people who want to have ethical AI, don't start with building it immediately, those that are the exact opposite of ethical will do it first. And then our probability of dying is even larger. So why this all-or-nothing mentality? What about reducing the chances of dying through AGI by building it first, because otherwise others who are much less aware of AI alignment stuff will build it first (e.g. Elon, Kim and the likes)?
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