All of Nisan's Comments + Replies

Nisan31

Ok. It's strange, then, that wikipedia does not say this. On the contrary, it says:

The notion that bilateral trade deficits are per se detrimental to the respective national economies is overwhelmingly rejected by trade experts and economists.[2][3][4][5]

(This doesn't necessarily contradict your claim, but it would be misleading for the article to say this but not mention a consensus view that trade surpluses are beneficial.)

3lsusr
I guess I should qualify my statement, since this post is about surplusses based on value-added business like manufacturing and technology. A trade surplus based on resource extraction is not necessarily a source of long-term wealth. I agree with the statement "The notion that bilateral trade deficits are per se detrimental to the respective national economies is overwhelmingly rejected by trade experts and economists.", by the way. The key word is "bilateral". Consider the China-Australia example I used in my original post. China has a bilateral trade deficit with Australia, but that's misleading because China imports raw material from Australia and exports manufactured goods to many other nations. In this way, China's bilateral trade deficit with Australia is one component of a net trade surplus. once you account for all the other countries China trade with.
Nisan20

Do you believe running a trade surplus causes a country to be wealthier? If so, how do we know that?

2lsusr
Yes. This is sufficiently well-established and uncontroversial, that I don't feel the need to dig through the specific examples.
Nisan84

And so, like OpenAI and Anthropic, Google DeepMind wants the United States' AI to be stronger than China's AI. And like OpenAI, it intends to make weapons for the US government.

One might think that in dropping its commitments not to cause net harm and not to violate international law and human rights, Google is signalling its intent to violate human rights. On the contrary, I believe it's merely allowing itself to threaten human rights — or rather, build weapons that will enable the US government to threaten human rights in order to achieve its goals.

(That... (read more)

Nisan322

Google's AI principles used to say:

In addition to the above objectives, we will not design or deploy AI in the following application areas:

  1. Technologies that cause or are likely to cause overall harm. Where there is a material risk of harm, we will proceed only where we believe that the benefits substantially outweigh the risks, and will incorporate appropriate safety constraints.
  2. Weapons or other technologies whose principal purpose or implementation is to cause or directly facilitate injury to people.
  3. Technologies that gather or use information for su
... (read more)
3[anonymous]
The version of this that OpenAI did wasn't unexpected to me, but this one was, I wasn't sure about DeepMind. (Wait, now I'm remembering that "Google AI" is a separate group to "DeepMind"? Web says they were merged in 2023. I wonder which members on the inside this change reflects).
9MichaelDickens
If you publicly commit to something, taking down the written text does not constitute a de-commitment. Violating a prior commitment is unethical regardless of whether the text of the commitment is still on your website. (Not that there's any mechanism to hold Google to its commitments, or that these commitments ever meant anything—Google was always going to do whatever it wanted anyway.)
8Nisan
And so, like OpenAI and Anthropic, Google DeepMind wants the United States' AI to be stronger than China's AI. And like OpenAI, it intends to make weapons for the US government. One might think that in dropping its commitments not to cause net harm and not to violate international law and human rights, Google is signalling its intent to violate human rights. On the contrary, I believe it's merely allowing itself to threaten human rights — or rather, build weapons that will enable the US government to threaten human rights in order to achieve its goals. (That's the purpose of a military, after all. We usually don't spell this out because it's ugly.) This move is an escalation of the AI race that makes AI war more likely. And even if war is averted, it will further shift the balance of power from individuals to already-powerful institutions. And in the meantime, the AIs themselves may become autonomous actors with their own purposes.
Nisan50

Update: It's even better than that. Not only will they make a lab order for you, but they will also pay for the test itself, at a steep discount to the consumer price.

Nisan30

I didn't know about ownyourlabs, thanks! While patients can order a small number of tests directly from Labcorp and Quest Diagnostics, it seems ownyourlabs will sell you a lab order for many tests that you can't get that way.

5Nisan
Update: It's even better than that. Not only will they make a lab order for you, but they will also pay for the test itself, at a steep discount to the consumer price.
Nisan60

Exhibit 13 is a sort of Oppenheimer-meets-Truman email thread in which Ilya Sutskever says:

Yesterday while we were considering making our final commitment given the non-solicit agreement, we realized we'd made a mistake.

Today, OpenAI republished that email (along with others) on its website (archived). But the above sentence is different in OpenAI's version of the email:

Yesterday while we were considering making our final commitment (even the non-solicit agreement), we realized we’d made a mistake.

I wonder which sentence is the one Ilya actually wr... (read more)

4habryka
My bet would be on the Musk lawsuit document being correct. The OpenAI emails seemed edited in a few different ways (and also had a kind of careless redaction failures).
Nisan40

check out exhibit 13...

Nisan153

Section 3.3(f)(iii):

Within 120 days of the date of this memorandum, DOE, acting primarily through the National Nuclear Security Administration (NNSA) and in close coordination with AISI and NSA, shall seek to develop the capability to perform rapid systematic testing of AI models’ capacity to generate or exacerbate nuclear and radiological risks. This initiative shall involve the development and maintenance of infrastructure capable of running classified and unclassified tests, including using restricted data and relevant classified threat information.

... (read more)
Nisan20

So was the launch code really 000000?

4Raemon
Yes. (That wasn’t meant to be a secret, sorry!)
Nisan100

A fun lesson on the scientific method: A few days ago, OpenAI announced a rollout of "Advanced Voice Mode". Confused by the messaging, I ran a test to see if their phone app could respond to an interruption:

Nisan: Can you count to 10, and then I'll interrupt you in the middle and see how that works.

ChatGPT 4o: Sure! I'll start counting now: One, two, three, four, fiv—

Nisan: Stop. Interruption.

ChatGPT 4o: How'd the interruption go?

Nisan: Oh, that went great. You stopped at five.

ChatGPT 4o: Awesome! Glad it worked smoothly. Do you want to try another test or... (read more)

kave162

I tried to replicate. At 20 it went on to 25, and I explained what it got wrong. I tried again. I interrupted at 6 and it stopped at 7, saying "Gotcha, stopped right at eleven!". I explained what happened and it said something like "Good job, you found the horrible, marrow cricket" (these last 3 words are verbatim) and then broke.

Nisan*73

The coin flip is a brilliant piece of technology for generating trustworthy random noise:

  • Making a two-headed coin is forgery, which is a crime.
  • Such trick coins can be foiled anyways by calling the toss in the air.

Thus when teaching the concept of a Bernoulli variable, we use the example of coin flips, because everyone already knows what they are. This is unfortunate because the very next concept we introduce is a biased Bernoulli variable, which corresponds to a "weighted" coin. But weighted coins don't exist! If it were practical to manufacture trick coins with arbitrary biases, coin flipping wouldn't be as popular as it is.

4cubefox
Yeah, coins can only be weighted very slightly. See Andrew Gelman & Deborah Nolan: You Can Load a Die, But You Can't Bias a Coin
2Nathan Helm-Burger
Yeah, and it's so very easy to make a weighted die. Why don't teachers switch to talking about weighted dice when explaining biased variables? You can label the sides of a six sided die with three 1s and three 2s to get a binary die easily enough. Just seems weird that something which is very physically difficult to ever make exist, and almost certainly nobody in the class has ever seen would be chosen as a teaching example over something which does exist and could even be made into a physical object for in-class demonstrations!
Nisan70

If there was a consensus among the 8 as to which tuning is better, that would be significant, right? Since the chance of that is 1/128 if they can't tell the difference. You can even get p < 0.05 with one dissenter if you use a one-tailed test (which is maybe dubious). Of course we don't know what the data look like, so I'm just being pedantic here.

Nisan613

Progress towards a robotic piano tuner: Entropy piano tuner attempts to accommodate "variations in string thickness, stretching, corrosion, dents, the harp flexing", etc. by minimizing the entropy of the power spectrum. Using it should be better than mindlessly tuning to a digital guitar tuner.

According to the website, professional pianists still prefer a human-tuned piano, but no one else can tell the difference. And the general opinion on piano tuner message boards seems to be that it's not quite good enough to replace a professional tuner's judgment.

Nisan202

This post is wrong. Thanks to SymplecticMan for the thought experiment demonstrating that a mixture of ideal gases follows a law rather than my proposed law. (It's also different from Newton's law.)

I made a pretty but unjustified assumption — that a cooling baking sheet can be modeled as a dynamical system where each possible transition is equally likely and in which heat is transferred in fixed quanta, one at a time. This contradicted Newton's law, and I got excited when I realized that Newton's law was merely a first-order approximation.

My mist... (read more)

4bhauth
see also phonons
Answer by Nisan20

This is the perfect time to start an AI + education project. AI today is not quite reliable enough to be a trustworthy teacher; and in the near future generic AI assistants will likely be smart enough to teach anything well (if they want to).

In the meantime, Eureka Labs faces an interesting alignment problem: Can they ensure that their AI teachers teach only true things? It will be tempting to make teachers that only seem to teach well. I hope they figure out how to navigate that!

NisanΩ15280

On 2018-04-09, OpenAI said[1]:

OpenAI’s mission is to ensure that artificial general intelligence (AGI) [...] benefits all of humanity.

In contrast, in 2023, OpenAI said[2]:

[...] OpenAI’s mission: to build artificial general intelligence (AGI) that is safe and benefits all of humanity.


  1. Archived ↩︎

  2. This archived snapshot is from 2023-05-17, but the document didn't get much attention until November that year. ↩︎

Nisan20

Another example is risk compensation: You make an activity safer (yay) and participants compensate by taking more risks (oh no).

4Viliam
Yeah, this is close, but a perfect match would end with you being forced to take more risks -- because if you don't, you are no longer competitive. Otherwise, you can opt out of taking more risks, in a way that you cannot opt out of e.g. inflation. A situation like: there is a machine that is dangerous to operate; it has a certain probability to kill you during every day you use it. The government decides that a non-zero probability of an employee dying on the job is okay, as long as it doesn't exceed let's say 1:1000 per person per year. Your company crunches some numbers, and concludes that you should operate this machine exactly 10 working days each year, and spend the rest of the year operating some much safer but less productive machinery. Then a technological improvement reduces the chances of getting killed by this machine to a half (yay), and your company updates the rules so that now you are required to use this machine 20 working days each year (oh no); you get fired and replaced by someone else if you refuse; and your wage remains the same, all the extra profit goes to the company. (A naive expectation would be that a safer machine would reduce your chances of dying per year.) People who voluntarily take more risk by e.g. driving their cars faster when wearing seat belts, at least actually get faster from point A to point B, so its a trade-off, they are now at a different indifference curve.
1FlorianH
No reason to believe safety-benefits are typically offset 1:1. Standard preferences structures would suggest the original effect may often only be partly offset, or in other cases even backfire by being more-than offset. And net utility for the users of a safety-improved tool might increase in the end in either case.
Nisan53

Interesting, it felt less messy to me than, say, rationalist-adjacent research retreats.

lsuser says that as a result of his spiritual journey, "now if there is so much as a cardboard box on my kitchen counter, it bothers me". Has your spiritual practice changed your tolerance of clutter?

4Gordon Seidoh Worley
Clutter is fine in the sense that everything is fine, but clutter also creates noise that I have to process (unless I close my eyes), and that eats up some brain capacity.
Nisan20

In other words, the zero-information oblivion that produced you once can produce you again, maybe in a different form.

Huh, that's Epicurus's argument against fearing death. But while Epicurus assumed there is no afterlife, you're using it to argue there is one!

Nisan60

Re: safety, it depends on exactly where you are, your skill in assessing strangers' intentions from a distance, and probably the way you carry yourself.

Speaking of which, I'd be interested in playing some improv games with you at less.online, if you want to do that!

3keltan
Hmmm, I think I’m mostly bad at those things. I’ll play it safe. And thanks for the good idea! I’ve added a session at 3pm on the Sunday.
Nisan42

I'd like to know what Holden did while serving on the board, and what OpenAI would have done if he hadn't joined. That's crucial for assessing the grant's impact.

But since board meetings are private, this will remain unknown for a long time. Unfortunately, the best we can do is speculate.

Nisan52

Of course, Karpathy's post could be in the multimodal training data.

Nisan92

12 years ago, in The state of Computer Vision and AI: we are really, really far away, Andrej Karpathy wrote:

The picture above is funny.

But for me it is also one of those examples that make me sad about the outlook for AI and for Computer Vision. What would it take for a computer to understand this image as you or I do? [...]

In any case, we are very, very far and this depresses me. What is the way forward? :(

I just asked gpt-4o what's going on in the picture, and it understood most of it:

In this image, a group of men in business attire are seen in a l

... (read more)
5Nisan
Of course, Karpathy's post could be in the multimodal training data.
Nisan20

That does look like a rough commute, the kind that can use up the mental energy you want to spend on learning. One thing you could consider is staying in a hotel overnight near your school sometimes.

Also, consider wearing ear protection on the Transbay Tube. I wish I had done that when I commuted that way for a year.

Nisan30

I suppose if you had more hidden states than observables, you could distinguish hidden-state prediction from next-token prediction by the dimension of the fractal.

Nisan20

If I understand correctly, the next-token prediction of Mess3 is related to the current-state prediction by a nonsingular linear transformation. So a linear probe showing "the meta-structure of an observer's belief updates over the hidden states of the generating structure" is equivalent to one showing "the structure of the next-token predictions", no?

3Nisan
I suppose if you had more hidden states than observables, you could distinguish hidden-state prediction from next-token prediction by the dimension of the fractal.
NisanΩ140

The subject of this post appears in the "Did you know..." section of Wikipedia's front page(archived) right now.

NisanΩ121614

I'm saying "transformers" every time I am tempted to write "LLMs" because many modern LLMs also do image processing, so the term "LLM" is not quite right.

"Transformer"'s not quite right either because you can train a transformer on a narrow task. How about foundation model: "models (e.g., BERT, DALL-E, GPT-3) that are trained on broad data at scale and are adaptable to a wide range of downstream tasks".

NisanΩ9137

I agree 100%. It would be interesting to explore how the term "AGI" has evolved, maybe starting with Goertzel and Pennachin 2007 who define it as:

a software program that can solve a variety of complex problems in a variety of different domains, and that controls itself autonomously, with its own thoughts, worries, feelings, strengths, weaknesses and predispositions

On the other hand, Stuart Russell testified that AGI means

machines that match or exceed human capabilities in every relevant dimension

so the experts seem to disagree. (On the other hand, ... (read more)

Nisan82

I'm surprised to see an application of the Banach fixed-point theorem as an example of something that's too implicit from the perspective of a computer scientist. After all, real quantities can only be represented in a computer as a sequence of approximations — and that's exactly what the theorem provides.

I would have expected you to use, say, the Brouwer fixed-point theorem instead, because Brouwer fixed points can't be computed to arbitrary precision in general.

(I come from a mathematical background, fwiw.)

5Daniel Murfet
This comment of mine is a bit cheeky, since there are plenty of theoretical computer scientists who think about characterising terms as fixed points, and logic programming is a whole discipline that is about characterising the problem rather than constructing a solution, but broadly speaking I think it is true among less theoretically-minded folks that "program" means "thing constructed step by step from atomic pieces".
Nisan40

This article saved me some time just now. Thanks!

Nisan20

Scaling temperature up by a factor of 4 scales up all the velocities by a factor of 2 [...] slowing down the playback of a video has the effect of increasing the time between collisions [....]

Oh, good point! But hm, scaling up temperature by 4x should increase velocities by 2x and energy transfer per collision by 4x. And it should increase the rate of collisions per time by 2x. So the rate of energy transfer per time should increase 8x. But that violates Newton's law as well. What am I missing here?

3SymplecticMan
Material properties such as thermal conductivity can depend on temperature. The actual calculation of thermal conductivity of various materials is very much outside of my area, but Schroeder's "An Introduction to Thermal Physics" has a somewhat similar derivation showing the thermal conductivity of an ideal gas being proportional to √T  based off the rms velocity and mean free path (which can be related to average time between collisions).
Nisan20

constant volume

Ah, so I'm working at a level of generality that applies to all sorts of dynamical systems, including ones with no well-defined volume. As long as there's a conserved quantity , we can define the entropy as the log of the number of states with that value of . This is a univariate function of , and temperature can be defined as the multiplicative inverse of the derivative .

if the proportionality depends on thermodynamic variables

By

I mean

for some constant that doesn't vary with time. S... (read more)

4Adele Lopez
Q in thermodynamics is not a conserved quantity, otherwise, heat engines couldn't work! It's not a function of microstates either. See http://www.av8n.com/physics/thermo/path-cycle.html for details, or pages 240-242 of Kittel & Kroemer.
1SymplecticMan
You still in general to specify which macroscopic variables are being held fixed when taking partial derivatives. Taking a derivative with volume held constant is different from one with pressure held constant, etc. It's not a universal fact that all such derivatives give temperature. The fact that we're talking about a thermodynamic system with some macroscopic quantities requires us to specify this, and we have various types of energy functions, related by Legendre transformations, defined based off which conjugate pairs of thermodynamic quantities they are functions. And I don't believe this proportionality holds, given what I demonstrated between the forms for what you get when applying this ansatz with T versus with Q. Can you demonstrate, for example, that the two different proportionalities you get between T and Q are consistent in the case of an ideal gas law, given that the two should differ only by a constant independent of thermodynamic quantities in that case? Since it seems like the non-idealized symmetric form would multiply one term  by T21 and  the other term by T22, can you explain why the non-idealized version doesn't just reduce to something like Newton's law of cooling, then? Here is some further discussion on issues with the 1T law. For an ideal gas, the root mean square velocity vrms is proportional to √T. Scaling temperature up by a factor of 4 scales up all the velocities by a factor of 2, for example.  This applies not just to the rms velocity but to the entire velocity distribution. The punchline is, looking at a video of a hot ideal gas is not distinguishable from looking at a sped-up video of a cold ideal gas, keeping the volume fixed. Continuing this scaling investigation, for a gas with collisions, slowing down the playback of a video  has the effect of increasing the time between collisions, and as discussed, slowing down the video should look like lowering the temperature. And given a hard sphere-like collision of two particles,
Nisan20

Yeah, as Shankar says, this is only for conduction (and maybe convection?). The assumption about transition probabilities is abstractly saying there's a lot of contact between the subsystems. If two objects contact each other in a small surface area, this post doesn't apply and you'll need to model the heat flow with the heat equation. I suppose radiative cooling acts abstractly like a narrow contact region, only allowing photons through.

Nisan40

I am suspicious of this "Lambert's law". Suppose the environment is at absolute zero -- nothing is moving at all. Then "Lambert's law" says that the rate of cooling should be infinite: our object should itself instantly drop to absolute zero once placed in an absolute-zero environment. Can that be right?

We're assuming the environment carries away excess heat instantly. In practice the immediate environment will warm up a bit and the cooling rate will become finite right away.

But in the ideal case, yeah, I think instant cooling makes sense. The environment's coldness is infinite!

Nisan40

Oh neat! Very interesting. I believe your argument is correct for head-on collisions. What about glancing blows, though?

Assume two rigid, spherical particles with the same mass and radius.

Pick a coordinate system (at rest) where the collision normal vector is aligned with the x-axis.

Then move the coordinate system along the x axis so that the particles have equal and opposite x-velocities. (The y-velocities will be whatever.) In this frame, the elastic collision will negate the x-velocities and leave the y-velocities untouched.

Back in the rest frame, this ... (read more)

4gjm
Hmm. You're definitely right that my analysis (if it deserves so dignified a name) assumes all collisions are head-on, which is wrong. If "the x-axis" (i.e., the normal vector in the collision) is oriented randomly then everything still works out proportional to the kinetic energies, but as you say that might not be the case. I think this is basically the same issue as the possible bogosity of the "possibly-bogus assumption" in my original analysis. Dealing with this all properly feels like more work than I want to do right now, though :-).
Nisan20

I'd love if anyone can point me to anywhere this cooling law (proportional to the difference of coldnesses) has been written up.

Also my assumptions about the dynamical system are kinda ad hoc. I'd like to know assumptions I ought to be using.

Nisan40

We can derive Newton's law of cooling from first principles.

Consider an ergodic discrete-time dynamical system and group the microstates into macrostates according to some observable variable . ( might be the temperature of a subsystem.)

Let's assume that if , then in the next timestep can be one of the values , , or .

Let's make the further assumption that the transition probabilities for these three possibilities have the same ratio as the number of microstates.

Then it turns out that the rate of change over time is proportional to ... (read more)

2Nisan
I'd love if anyone can point me to anywhere this cooling law (proportional to the difference of coldnesses) has been written up. Also my assumptions about the dynamical system are kinda ad hoc. I'd like to know assumptions I ought to be using.
Nisan20

Wow, that's a lot of kale. Do you eat 500g every day? And 500g is the mass of the cooked, strained kale?

3mcint
It reduces a lot if you exclude the water. It's quite easy to eat if you can serve it mixed with grain and protein, rice, lentils, thick stew, as a kind of hot salad (in cuberule.com sense, or "nachos").
5Johannes C. Mayer
500-600g frozen prechopped Kale. It contains a small amount of liquid (or rather ice). I'd guess maybe 5%-10% of the weight is the liquid. I am not sure if they count the water. I would buy the thing that says either 600g on the packaging, or 1kg, and then use half. Also, I always drink the cooking liquid. I am not sure that is required, but it has a pretty strong kale taste so I'd guess there is probably at least some more kale goodness in there.
3Dagon
I'd assumed 500g was pre-cooking weight.  It cooks down 2:1 or more.  Still more than most people think of as one serving, but not excessive as a primary dish for the main meal. It would be good to clarify if it's much more than that.
Nisan40

What a beautiful illustration of how a Humanist's worldview differs from a Cousin's!

NisanΩ573

I wonder why Gemini used RLHF instead of Direct Preference Optimization (DPO). DPO was written up 6 months ago; it's simpler and apparently more compute-efficient than RLHF.

  • Is the Gemini org structure so sclerotic that it couldn't switch to a more efficient training algorithm partway through a project?
  • Is DPO inferior to RLHF in some way? Lower quality, less efficient, more sensitive to hyperparameters?
  • Maybe they did use DPO, even though they claimed it was RLHF in their technical report?
Nisan70

Another example is the obfuscated arguments problem. As a toy example:

For every cubic centimeter in Texas, your missing earring is not in the cubic centimeter.

Therefore, your missing earring is not in Texas.

Even if the conclusion of the argument is a lie, each premise is spot-checkable and most likely true. The lie has been split up into many statements each of which is only slightly a lie.

NisanΩ130

Thanks! For convex sets of distributions: If you weaken the definition of fixed point to , then the set has a least element which really is a least fixed point.

Nisan*190

Hyperbolic growth

The differential equation , for positive and , has solution

(after changing the units). The Roodman report argues that our economy follows this hyperbolic growth trend, rather than an exponential one.

While exponential growth has a single parameter — the growth rate or interest rate — hyperbolic growth has two parameters: is the time until singularity, and is the "hardness" of the takeoff.

A value of close to zero gives a "soft" takeoff where the derivative gets high well in advance of the singularity. A large va... (read more)

Nisan20

Ah, beginning-of-line-text is nice. It skips over the initial # or // of comments and the initial * of Org headings. I've now bound it to M-m.

Answer by Nisan110

Consider seeing a doctor about the panicky and stressed feelings. They may test you for hormone imbalances or prescribe you antianxiety medication.

You bring up a point that I definitely should've mentioned in the post: I am diagnosed with an anxiety disorder (OCD) and am currently taking medicine for it. It doesn't solve everything (such as the issues mentioned here), but the diagnosis does help to explain why I might be having these problems in the first place.

NisanΩ360

Conception is a startup trying to do in vitro gametogenesis for humans!

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