All of Robert Kralisch's Comments + Replies

Yeah, I am not super familiar with PCA, but my understanding is that while both PCA and referential containment can be used to extract lower-dimensional or more compact representations, they operate on different types of data structures (feature vectors vs. graphs/hypergraphs) and have different objectives (capturing maximum variance vs. identifying self-contained conceptual chunks). Referential containment is more focused on finding semantically meaningful and contextually relevant substructures within a causal or relational knowledge representation. It a... (read more)

I think that "epistemic rationality" matches very well with what I am thinking of as level 3, which is my notion of intelligence. It is indeed applicable to non-agentic systems.
I am still thinking about whether to include meta-learning (referring to updating level 3 algorithms based on experience) and meta-processes above that in my concept of intelligence.

Would this layer of meta-learning be part of epistemic rationality, do you think? It becomes particularly relevant if the system is resource constrained and has to prioritize what to learn about, and/or ... (read more)

1cubefox
So regarding things that involve active prioritizing of compute resources, I think that would fairly clearly fall no longer under epistemic rationality. Because "spending compute resources on this rather than that" is an action, which are only part of instrumental rationality. So in that sense it wouldn't be part of intelligence. Which makes some sense given that intuitively smart people often concentrate their mental efforts on things that are not necessarily very useful to them. This relates also to what you write about level 1 and 2 compared to level 3. In the first two cases you mention actions, but not in the third. Which makes sense if level 3 is about epistemic rationality. Assuming level 1 and 2 are about instrumental rationality then, this would be an interesting difference to my previous conceptualization: On my picture, epistemic rationality was a necessary but not sufficient condition for instrumental rationality, but on your picture, instead level 1 and 2 (~instrumental rationality) are a necessary but not sufficient condition for level 3 (~epistemic rationality). I'm not sure what we can conclude from these inversed pictures. Okay, but terminology-wise I wouldn't describe this as generality. Because the narrow/general axis seems to have more to to with instrumental rationality / competence than with epistemic rationality / intelligence. The latter can be described as a form of prediction, or building causal models / a world model. But generality seems to be more about what a system can do overall in terms of actions. GPT-4 may have a quite advanced world model, but at its heart it only imitates Internet text, and doesn't do so in real time, so it can hardly be used for robotics. So I would describe it as a less general system than most animals, though more general than a Go AI. Regarding an overall model of cognition, a core part that describes epistemic rationality seems to be captured well by a theory called predictive coding or predictive process

Thanks a lot for the encouragement :)

Yes, I am trying to understand a generalized (which also means simplified) and formalizable parallel to human cognition. Some of my thinking on this is inspired by predictive coding and adaptive resonance theory (although prettly loosely by the latter), and I am trying to figure out the implications of our most updated understanding of neurobiological principles, together with a notion of the "riverbeds of cognition". 

In other words, how can we design an architecture such that it is not pressured to take shortcuts ... (read more)

Hm, I'll give some thought to how to integrate different types of data with this picture, but I think that the "useful" classification of data ultimately depends on whether the agent possesses the right "key" to interpret it, and by extension, how difficult that "key" is to produce from concepts that the agent is already proficient with. 

At the end of the day, the agent can only "understand" any data in terms of internalized concepts, so there will often be some uncertainty whether the difficulty is in translating sensible data into that internal repr... (read more)

2cheer Poasting
I think I don't have the correct background to understand fully. However, I think it makes a little more sense than when I originally read it.  An analogue to what you're talking about (referential containment) with the medical knowledge would be something like PCA (principle component analysis) in genomics, right? Just at a much higher, autonomous level.

Yeah, I wish we had some cleaner terminology for that.
Finetuning the "simulation engine" towards a particular task at hand (i.e. to find the best trade-off between breadth and depth search in strategy games, or even know how much "thinking time" or "error allowance" to allocate to a move), given limited cognitive resources, is something that I would associate with level 3 capability.
It certainly seems like learning could go into the direction of making the model of the game more useful by either improving the extent to which this model predicts/ouputs good... (read more)

Thanks! 

In your example, I think it is possible that the hunter-gatherer solves the problem through pure level 2 capability, even if they never encountered this specific problem before. Using causal models compositionally to represent the current scene, and computing it to output a novel solution, does not actually require that the human updates their causal models about the world. 
I am trying to distinguish agents with this sort of compositional world model from ones that just have a bunch of cashed thoughts or habits (which would correspond to ... (read more)

the maximum plan length is only  steps

You mean the maximum length for an efficient/minimal plan, right? Maybe good to clarify (even if obvious in this case). Just a thought.

1Johannes C. Mayer
Yes right, good point. There are plans that go zick-sag through the graph, which would be longer. I edited that.

I believe that it is very sensible to bring this sort of structure into our approach to AGI safety research, but at the same time it seems very clear that we should update that structure to the best of our ability as we make progress in understanding the challenges and potentials of different approaches. 

It is a feedback loop where we make each step according to our best theory of where to make it, and use the understanding gleaned from that step to update the theory (when necessary), which could well mean that we retrace some steps and recalibrate (t... (read more)

2Cameron Berg
Hey Robert—thanks for your comment! Definitely agree—I hope this sequence is read as something much more like a dynamic draft of a theoretical framework than my Permanent Thoughts on Paradigms for AGI Safety™. I definitely agree with the value of framing AGI outcomes both positively and negatively, as I discuss in the previous post. I am less sure that AGI safety as a field necessarily requires deeply considering the positive potential of AGI (i.e., as long as AGI-induced existential risks are avoided, I think AGI safety researchers can consider their venture successful), but, much to your point, if the best way of actually achieving this outcome is by thinking about AGI more holistically—e.g., instead of explicitly avoiding existential risks, we might ask how to build an AGI that we would want to have around—then I think I would agree. I just think this sort of thing would radically redefine the relevant approaches undertaken in AGI safety research. I by no means want to reject radical redefinitions out of hand (I think this very well could be correct); I just want to say that it is probably not the path of least resistance given where the field currently stands. (And agreed on the self-control point, as you know. See directionality of control in Q3.)