All of Pancho_Iba's Comments + Replies

I'm sorry it took me so long to look at this. That's not what I had in mind, but I'll show you as soon as I can.

0Gleb_Tsipursky
Look forward to it!

I have worn 3 rings in my life. The first one broke; it was made of coconut. The second one, I lost it. The third one was uncomfortable.

None of those prejudiced my blood flow. Now, I'm obviously not saying that no ring will do this, but that we would only need to pick a proper one. The second ring I mentioned was roughly 5mm wide, which is enough space to write LessWrong on it.

That seems like a rational answer. :)

Why do you say a ring is not practical?

A pin wouldn't be my first choice, but if it looks "sober" enough, I could go for it. Although I don't know if I could make the habit of taking the time to pin it.

0Gleb_Tsipursky
Please help optimize the designs of the t-shirts - more in this post. Thanks!
0ChristianKl
I don't think that rings are good for blood flow in the finger. Espeically one's big enough to display a logo.

I might be a little late with this, but what about a LW ring? A ring could be worn every day and on every ocassion.

2Gleb_Tsipursky
Here's a design for a ring, what do you think?
1ChristianKl
Wearing a ring is not particularly practical. Nobody I know uses rings for tribal signaling. Doing so would be weird. Toastmasters goes for a pin. I have never worn my toastmasters pin but I think it would be better than a ring if you want to have something along those lines for LW.
1Gleb_Tsipursky
Hm, my guess is that a ring would be too hard to notice as a means of conveying rationality to others, and unless there is mass adoption by LWs, it would not be a strong signal of affiliation. However, I'm willing to update if a number of people indicate they would like one, as that would indicate evidence of likelihood of significant adoption.

Just asking seems a little to plain to work, but I do know some very few people who would listen. The thing is that, by doing so, they are somewhat already reacting rationally. Now I'm thinking maybe I should gather a couple of those people and someone who is less inclined to change his mind and try to "convert" him by providing an environment in which it is ok to be mistaken and good to be corrected... Then I just repeat this process inductively until we take over he world, don't I?

If you have a position of authority (e.g. a university lecture

... (read more)
0CCC
If the simplest solution works, then, well, it works. And if it doesn't... I don't really see any negative consequences of failure. It'll work for some people, not for others. You could try, I guess, but people change slowly so it could take a while. I think that trying to force it could have ethical problems. But inviting someone to have a chat with you and your friends shouldn't have any such problems. Good luck!

I know it would be hard, and most likely nearly impossible to change people without a very good idea very well executed, but perhaps a tiny possibility is reason enough to attempt to do it nonetheless. I wish to take your advice on trying to change myself among new people, and so I ask if you have any suggestion on a particular environment on which to try to do so.

2Viliam
The obvious new environment is the nearest LW meetup, if available. Otherwise... I don't know, maybe some public lectures. (I am not the right person to ask about meeting new people. My own social sphere is very small.)

I'd gladly read and criticize your translations if you want me to, but it will have to wait until after my topology exam next week. If you want me to do it, please remind me to do so ten days from now or so, since I will most probably forget about it.

I quite agree, but now I'm wondering how could I change my own environment -not by replacing it, but by changing people's reactions- . It seems the responsability to do so lays upon my shoulders since I am the one who intends to live differently. Do you believe it'd be right to attempt to change people's reactions (if I knew a way), or should I acknowledge the possibility that they are just happy the way they are, and should just let them be?

4Viliam
They probably are. Also, even if hypothetically becoming super rational should be an improvement for everyone, your ability to change them is limited, and it's uncertain whether that degree of change you could realistically achieve would be an improvement. Unless you have superior manipulation skills, I believe it is extremely difficult to change people, if they don't want to. You push; they welcome the challenge and push hard in the opposite direction. Unfortunately, defending your own opinion, however stupid it is, is a favorite hobby of too many otherwise intelligent people. It could be a very frustrating experience for you, and an enjoyment for them. At least my experiments in this area seem hugely negative. If people don't want to be rational, you are just giving them more clever arguments they can use in debates. I hate to admit it, but "people never change" seems to be a very good heuristic, even if it is not literally true. (I hate it because of the outside view it provides for my own attempts at self-improvement. That's why I usually say "people never change unless they want to", but the problem is, wanting to change, and declaring that you want to change, are two different things.) Also, I noticed that when you are trying to change, many people around you get anxious and try to bring you back to the "old you". If you want to change your own behavior, it is easier with completely new people, who don't know the "old you", and accept your new behavior as your standard one.
2CCC
People try to do that all the time. One of the best ways is to simply ask other people to change their reactions, and explain why - some people will listen (especially if you point out how the new environment will benefit them as well) while others won't. (Mind you, even the ones that listen will probably be slow to change their reactions... habits are not easily broken) I'd also suggest, at the same time, changing your reactions to match your preferred environment; give everyone around you an example to follow. If you have a position of authority (e.g. a university lecturer in a classroom) you could even use that authority to mandate how students are allowed to react - again, it would help to point out how the ability to change your mind is helpful to the students. I think that it can be right to attempt to change peoples' reactions, if that change is to their benefit and the means employed to effect the change are ethical (i.e. ask them to change, don't put a gun to their head and force them to change).

Regards from Argentina,

Great post. I had started reading through this site randomly while I got more and more into HPMOR, which a friend recommended, and having a little list of posts to start will most probably prove helpful.

I would like to mention that the thing about this community I found the most astonishing was a comment that read something like "Edit: After reading some responses I've changed my mind and this comment no longer respresents my beliefs." I did not even know that it was possible for a human being to be so greatful and humble u... (read more)

6Viliam
To me it feels easier to admit mistakes in an environment which does not punish admitting mistakes by loss of status. Where people cooperate to find the truth, instead of competing for image of infallibility. Just saying that how one reacts on being shown errors is partially a function of their personality, but also partially a function of their environment. Changing the environment can help, although sometimes bad habits remain.

I'm sorry; re-reading my comment, I think it wasn't clear. I didn't intend to ask which is better, but to arise the following question: Is it possible that whenever I have to decide between rational or reasonable predominance, that decission entails an a-priori decission of one over the other, since each criterion might point towards itself?... it just seemed fun to think about it.

By the way, I'm curious about the Way to which you are referring with a capital W. Is that something like rationality commandments?

1VAuroch
It's something Eliezer talks about in some posts; I associate it mainly with The Twelve Virtues and this:

So, should I seek for reasonableness or rationality to prevail, whenever the rational is outside the Overton window? My dilemma is that I find more pleasure on being rational, so rationality stands I should seek for rationality, whereas the reasonable thing to do would be to stand with reasonableness and shut up.

The point is: whenever I can't decide on one over the other, which criterion should I use to make the decission, since each seems to point towards itself? This is fun.

2abramdemski
In hindsight, writing a post about Rational vs Reasonable has the unfortunate effect of causing people to ask which is better and how to choose between them, as well as risking causing people to accuse people of being reasonable rather than rational and things of that nature. These are not good outcomes. There's a very general issue with "X vs Y" posts, which is that they make the distinction look contentious rather than merely useful. Brienne wrote about this in connection with her Ask Culture vs Guess Culture. A similar failure mode occurs when people debate epistemic vs instrumental rationality. As nyralech replied, the answer is to use what best serves your goals. The two are not opposed; nor are they allied; nor is it a balancing act between them. Where being reasonable does not serve rationality, the Way opposes your reasonableness; where being reasonable does serve rationality the Way opposes your unreasonableness. "The primary thing when you take a sword in your hands is your intention to cut the enemy, whatever the means." etc.
1nyralech
If being reasonable is necessary to your goals, then it is already instrumentally rational to be reasonable.

"In King's Landing, there are two sorts of people. The players and the pieces."

"And I was a piece?" She dreaded the answer.

"Yes, but don't let that trouble you. You're still half a child. Every man's a piece to strart with, and every maid as well. Even some who think they are players."

Talk between Sansa and Petyr - A Song of Ice and Fire: A Storm of Swords

Well, the sentence's wording without links is important, but maybe if your friend suggests a site, you can try not being so lazy as not clicking the link to the page.

And have you found a way to overcome this social isolation? I have trouble finding interest in meeting people myself, although I do not have it as hard as yourself, as it seems.

PS: I did not know non-blondeness was a necessary condition for being nerd.

I have yet another possible reason for these social difficulties one tends to experience: If you are smart, you have to hide it. It sounds plain, but you may be able to remember someone making fun of you in your childhood for using "fancy words", excelling at math or literature or something like that. I am not sure if I can fully identify the cause of this behaviour on others (maybe a defense mechanism) but I find it to be empirically true. Personally, I went most of my very early life complying with the constant need of feigning modesty, which m... (read more)