All of pianoforte611's Comments + Replies

I don't understand why you would want this. It doesn't take exactly X times as much effort to provide X times as much productivity, but its a way better approximation than a log scale. Is the goal to discourage commerce, and promote self sufficiency?

0Val
Another problem would be, that unless this system suddenly and magically got applied to the whole world, it would not be competitive. It can't grow from a small set of members because the limits it imposes would hinder those who would have contributed the most to the size and power of the economy. By shrinking your economy, you will become less competitive against those who don't adopt this new system.

I agree that popular quotes can be used irrationally - a shield to hide behind instead of questioning what is actually best. However, sometimes they are simply good advice in some situations and bad advice in others. Can you not think of a class of scenarios in which Lincoln's advice is good advice?

0[anonymous]
True, context adds meaning to the quote. I suppose it helps to add that my distaste stems from the usage of these quotes as blanket life-advice, without recognizing that they are situation-dependent. I.e. I consider the quote in my original post a factor in the increase of perceived reluctance of people to ask questions, either in class or at work, for fear of seeming the fool.

Strongly second the advice to have him go to a psychiatrist or neurologist. The type of seizure you are thinking of is a grand mal seizure which is not the only kind. This sounds like a very typical partial seizure to me.

I agree very much that this is a thing that happens, but I don't think it needs to a named fallacy. There is even a standard nomenclature - failure of theory of mind (its more general but it works).

I skimmed two of your papers. I'm honestly shocked that you're the same person. They were both precise, carefully argued and with none of the pseudo-rigor or tunnel vision that I've found in your other writing. I apologize for misjudging you.

Unfortunately, I'm not interested in debating the specifics of this argument, and I never claimed to be an expert on ISIS. However I maintain that you are going beyond your scope of expertise when you claim to know what "ISIS would love to see".

3Gleb_Tsipursky
I'm glad you took the opportunity to skim my papers. My writing is highly varied depending on the audiences for whom I'm writing. Unfortunately, op-eds have to be a certain kind of format that is not given to the kind of precise and carefully-argued style in which I would much rather prefer to write. Pieces I specifically write for LW are also written in a more rigorous style, although not the level I would write for a peer-reviewed journal. I hear you about "ISIS would love to see" - this was a rhetorical maneuver. It's one of those stylistic things needed to get an op-ed published, as I learned over much trial and error. While "love" is rhetorical, the bigger point still stands. ISIS has specifically described its goal as attacking the notion that Muslims and non-Muslims can live together, and specifically aims its attacks to result in creating a hostile environment for Muslims in western countries so that they would turn to ISIS.

I think can finally state what is it about many of your arguments makes me go "sigh, here we go again". (And I suspect a lot of people, given that your political posts tend to be negatively received by a lot of people).

Your arguments take a general form that is something like the following. State that A could have beneficial effects B, C and D. Dismiss any suggestions that A could have negative effects E, F and G. Insistently state that since A could have beneficial effects B, C and D, then the expected utility of A is positive - throw some made ... (read more)

0Gleb_Tsipursky
Can you clarify where in the piece I "dismiss any suggestions that A could have negative effects E, F and G"? I'd say the fact that a major newspaper published a political op-ed I wrote is pretty good evidence for me having some knowledge for how politics work I actually have quite a bit of knowledge about how to further knowledge, both in teaching and in research However, I'm always happy to learn new things about ISIS, politics, and furthering human knowledge, and look forward to hearing any insights from you about them :-)
0johnlawrenceaspden
There is no 'medical establishment'. There are people trying to work out where their limited amounts of money should be best spent. http://www.mrc.ac.uk/funding/science-areas/population-systems-medicine/cfsme/ £1.6million is not much, for the scale of the problem, but I would not put my rational charity dollar into CFS funding, or indeed into any first-world medical problem, and I actually have some chance of being a sufferer.

It seems I somewhat misunderstood your argument and misjudged you; I tentatively pegged you as a pig’s thyroid evangel feigning humility. I apologize. I also apologize because I am not the opponent you are looking for.

Since I apparently didn’t stress this enough, I will conclude by saying again that without interventional data, you have nothing. It doesn’t matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn’t matter how smart you are, if it disagrees with experiment then its wrong. Repeating your hypothesis again and again, doesn’t help your case, it hurts your credibility. Unfortunately this is all I have to offer that I think is worth offering at this point.

1Lumifer
That is not true. You would prefer to have data from randomized intervention trials, but even without them you can look and collect data and come to conclusions.
0johnlawrenceaspden
My dear old thing! That is a perfectly natural assumption to make and there is no need to apologise. If I were convinced of the truth of this idea, that is likely exactly what I would be, here practising the argument before I have to make it as a wild-haired prophet. But I think I have managed to retain enough sanity to not want to believe it if it's not true. And I have pretty high standards for truth, and they definitely include intervention, cause, randomisation, placebos and control. At the moment, I think that my hypotheses are probably false (because there is no way that I can see that it can be a widespread problem and yet fibro-turks are hot) If it's false, then I think it's probably important to refute it properly if only to stop Wilson. But I don't care very much about that. My own problems seem to be gone, they are or were probably either non-existent or horribly idiosyncratic and no one can help me with them, and I am just going to have to work it out on my own. That's a man's death and I am glad to have found a worthwhile enemy. But I disagree with you about beautiful hypotheses. If they disagree with experiment then they are wrong, no question. But they are worth looking at carefully, and a science that does not bother is not a science. And probably not truth-finding, even over the long run. If you run into any interested opponents, do tell them there is someone wrong on the internet. There is still a mystery to explain! It's just back to being a hobby, for me.

This seems like the entire problem. How to convince people to do the expensive experiments needed to explore the obvious hypothesis, without already knowing the answers?

Get an MD, prescribe pig's thyroid if you really believe it such a fantastic treatment. If the evidence is clear, start a clinical trial. Admittedly, I don't know if you can do that in the the nationalized UK health system, if you're in private practice in the US I believe you have enough leeway to do that. You'll be under very heavy scrutiny though, and there may be insurance issues but... (read more)

0johnlawrenceaspden
No worries about sounding harsh! I declared Crocker's Rules, so I'm explicitly asking you to optimise for communication and not worry about offending me. And I very much appreciate you taking the time to tell me things I don't know. That's exactly what I'm saying! The action of T3 seems to be to control ATP recycling in the mitochondria. Sarah Myhill's beautiful paper to my mind proves almost beyond doubt that that's the problem in CFS. This is what I mean by 'every time I look for disconfirming evidence, I find new reasons to believe'. I know that I sound like a crank. That's because I am a crank. I am a member of several at-risk groups for Arrogant Overconfidence Disorder, which I strongly suspect to be related to hypothyroidism in some way. Others have suggested that I am under a certain amount of 'stress'. CFS/FMS and hypothyroidism are much more similar than most diseases, to the point where out of a fabulous number of possibilities I was trying to fit to what was wrong with me, hypothyroidism looked instantly like what I had, despite the fact that I'd not only had the test for it, but the test was bang in the middle of the normal range. And I think the CDC agree. One of the diagnostic criteria is explicitly that hypothyroidism have been ruled out (haven't checked this, just a memory). But also, doesn't the fact that all diseases look similar strike you as suspicious? As I understand it that was the whole reason for the 'stress' theory in the first place. Let me think about the logic for a while, I'll get back to you. ---------------------------------------- OK, logic looks fine. I really need to know if that bit's wrong. It means my mind is broken. If they're not differently caused then they have the same cause. And if that's true, then in one case the TSH test is picking it up, and in the other it's not. So the test is not doing what it's supposed to. ---------------------------------------- Suppose diabetes was diagnosed by insulin levels instead o

I honestly want to know - what do you expect him, or someone here to do? Say you're right? Figure out a way to fund a clinical trial of FM patients treating them with T3 or pig's thyroid? (I admit I didn't read all of your posts from beginning to end, you said that such trials were already done? If that's the case are they good quality? If this is such miracle treatment then were the results not clear?)

If you want to convince anyone, then you need interventional data, not hypothesizing. In other words, you have to pony up, or convince someone to pony up and fund said research.

0johnlawrenceaspden
I want him, or anyone else, to show me things that I haven't thought about, or have just missed, that mean I'm wrong. If I wanted disciples, I know exactly where to find them. It is a core belief of this website that one is very bad at seeing the evidence against one's own ideas. I believe in that. I am asking people to take me down, because I am probably unable to do that for myself, and I do not want to cause a catastrophe while I am still dithering, but if I just dither secretly, all I will do is find more evidence in favour. ---------------------------------------- This seems like the entire problem. How to convince people to do the expensive experiments needed to explore the obvious hypothesis, without already knowing the answers? Physics will spend billions trying to find surprises, for the sheer joy of it. In medicine, where millions of lives may hang in the balance, no one cares.

Yes he said it could be plausible but would require more work to form better thoughts on.

0johnlawrenceaspden
Scott and I were in communication earlier, and he asked some good questions that provoked post 2. Now he's not talking to me. Not sure why. ---------------------------------------- Just really busy, apparently.

It's both. I think the distinction can be reasonably clean - science aims at understanding via explicitly modeling the process (not necessarily mathematically but often) and then testing the model. The process of building the LHC was engineering, the experiments themselves are part of science.

Alright full disclosure - if you had just said "You should probably have included a "show me the answers" option", I would had agreed and moved on. But instead your tone of ~Bah, everything is ruined!~ I found quite jarring*, especially since I had already gained some useful and surprising information off of despite its limitations. This isn't a particularly scientific poll for many reasons, I don't know how to tease apart strategies that are popular with strategies that lead to long term success which is what the qualifier was for - if I figure out a way to do this some day, I'll be more careful in its implementation.

*I'm not sure why, this LessWrong after all.

1ChristianKl
I think that LW is about furthering high epistemic standards, especieally when it comes to applied rationality. Applied rationality is at least as important than the specific subject matter. Additionally I think voicing this criticism this way increases the chances that people who read the criticising to future polls at higher standards.

I was going to redo the poll a few hours after I made it, but I didn't think this was a big deal. Just choose I'm not in a relationship or other - neither is an interesting field anyway.

0ChristianKl
The problem is that you don't know how different people who take the survey make their choices. Some people who are in a relationship that's shorten then 2 years will answer one of the other options. That makes the whole data set difficult to interpret because you don't know a a particular person made their decision.

Not exactly, see my response to OrphanWilde.

I agree vehemently and should have probably used a different phrasing. What I was really getting at is that in most anecdotes that I've heard - one person is significantly more enthusiastic to start off with (and I don't think this is necessarily a problem).

If you are in a relationship lasting greater than 2 years that you consider successful, how did you meet your SO? [pollid:1100]

0ChristianKl
The poll is screwed up because it lacks a "just show the answers field". Additionally the dichomy of being in a relationship lasting greater than 2 years and I'm not in a relationship lacks cases that exist in reality.

I'd love to see the results of a large survey on how successfuly married people found their partner. Is the "love finds you" meme based in anything real? The most common anecdote that I've heard is of the form "I really wanted this person and I pursued them persistently until they settled for me".

4TheAltar
The "love finds you" meme would match up to lots of things. It matches up to "I didn't use a dating service or website to find someone and found someone anyway" and "I didn't make any effort at all to date and eventually ran into someone". I think that an eligible, decent-looking young person will find someone eventually (especially as the dating pool decreases as they get older and remain in demand), but just because a strategy can barely scrape by doesn't mean you should ignore much better options that are available. If you want to find the best person you can and want to date people sooner rather than 'eventually', then Jacobian's ideas sound like a much much better strategy.
5OrphanWilde
My fiance might describe it that way; she's more or less stated that she feels I'm out of her league. I'd define it less (which is to say, not) as "settling" and more "noticing that this relationship is emotionally healthy for me". The whole concept of "settling" is... wrong. The goal of dating isn't to find the "best", by some criteria, person you can find, which is unfortunately how many people tend to see it. The goal of dating should be to find your complement; somebody who enhances you (and ideally, who you enhance as well). [Edited: Typographical error corrected]
-3Brillyant
Yuck.
9[anonymous]
My SO and I did not pursue each other relentlessly. Granted, the conditions of the area meant that I was under even less pressure than women normally are to be the pursuer. The area had very few women between the ages of 18 and 30. He didn't have to pursue me that much, either, but I am not sure if there were reasons beyond my personality. I had just ended a relationship, he and I befriended each other, we expressed interest. We started dating officially a few months later, I moved in with him, and we got married 1.5 years later. We're coming up on our fourth anniversary and the relationship has been successful by all meaningful metrics. :)
4gwern
No, it's not. It provides a PDF link, and if that didn't work, you could download any of the many other PDF links.

That was a very entertaining read thanks.

Maybe it depends on a company, and maybe the one where I work now is an unually dysfunctional one (or maybe I just have better information channels and pay better attention), but most management decisions are completely idiotic

It is also possible that you aren't aware of most of what your management does. I'll take your word for it that many of their decisions that are visible to you are poor (maybe most of their decision are, but I'm not yet convinced). As for management consulting, I suppose that is an inferential gap that is going to be hard to bridge.

1Viliam
The implication of my story for management consulting is: if this company (assuming that I have described it correctly) would ever hire a management consulting company, why would they decide to do it, how would they choose the specific company, what task would they give to the company, and how would they use the results? My model says that they wouldn't hire the management consulting company unless as a move in some internal power struggle; the choice would most likely be done on basis of "some important person's friend works for the consulting company or recommended the company"; they would give the company a completely false description of our organization and would choose the most uninformed and incompetent people as speakers (for example, they might choose one of those 'programmers' who doesn't contribute to our project as the person who will describe the project to the consultants); and whatever reports the consulting company would give to us, our management would completely reinterpret them to fit their existing beliefs. In other words, I have no direct information about the management consulting companies, but I have a model of their customers; and that models says that in the market for management consulting the actual quality of the advice is irrelevant. (Unless companies like this are a minority on the market.) The upper echelons don't invite me to their meetings, so there is always a chance. But when I tried to socialize with some of the lower managers, the story is usually that the higher managers mostly sabotage their work by "hit-and-run management". It works like this: the higher manager knows nothing about the project and most of the time doesn't even care. Suddenly they become interested in some detail (e.g. something got wrong and the customer complained to them, or they just randomly heard something and decided to "be useful"). So they come and start micromanaging to optimize for that detail, completely ignoring all the context. Sometimes they

Not sure if there is a thread for this, does anyone have access to this article?

“Comparative Efficiency of Informal (Subjective, Impressionistic) and Formal (Mechanical, Algorithmic) Prediction Procedures: The Clinical Statistical Controvery”, Psychology, Public Policy, and Law 2: 293—323

2Sarunas
http://www.tue-tm.org/snijders/papers_on_prediction/Grove_Meehl_1996.pdf
2gwern
That's what the Research request pages are for, but did you check Google Scholar?

A good place to get started there is Epistemology and the Psychology of Human Judgment, summarized on LW by badger

Thanks, I'll try to find the relevant parts.

This suggests that the marginal bit of medicine--i.e. the piece that people don't consume, but would if it were cheaper or do consume but wouldn't if it were more expensive--doesn't have a net impact

I didn't want to get in too in depth into this discussion, because I don't actually disagree with the weak conclusion that a lot of people receive too much healthcare and that completely free health... (read more)

Thanks for the detailed reply.

Regarding arguments that the allocation of medical resources, particularly in the U.S. are wasteful and harmful in many cases - I agree in general, though the specifics are messy, and I don't find Robin's posts on the matter very well argued*. I'm most interested in this bit:

This is statisticians and efficiency experts and so on trying to apply standard industrial techniques to medicine and getting pushback that looks ludicrous to me. For example, human diagnosticians perform at the level or worse than simple algorithms (I'm

... (read more)
2[anonymous]
There's also a metamed cofounder making the same case, here: https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2015/06/30/the-thing-and-the-symbolic-representation-of-the-thing/
0Vaniver
A good place to get started there is Epistemology and the Psychology of Human Judgment, summarized on LW by badger. Ah, that's a slightly broader claim than the one I wanted to make. MetaMed, especially early on, optimized for diagnostics and very little else, and so ran into problems like "why is the report I paid $5,000 for so poorly typeset?". So it's not that medicine / patients wants bad diagnostics ceteris paribus, but that the tradeoffs they make between the various features of medical care make it clear that healing isn't the primary goal. As I understand it, the study measured health outcomes at the beginning and end of the study, as well as utilization during the study. The group with lower copays consumed much more medicine than the group with higher copays, but was no healthier. This suggests that the marginal bit of medicine--i.e. the piece that people don't consume, but would if it were cheaper or do consume but wouldn't if it were more expensive--doesn't have a net impact. (Anything that it would do to help is countered by the risks of interacting with the medical system, say.) I think I should also make it clear that there's a difference between medicine, the attempt to heal people, and Medicine, the part of our economy devoted to such, just like there's a distinction between science and Science. One could make a similar claim that Science Isn't About Discovery, for example, which would seem strange if one is only thinking about "the attempt to gain knowledge" instead of the actual academia-government-industry-journal-conference system. Most of Robin's work is on medical spending specifically, i.e. medicine as actually practiced instead of how it could be practiced.

I've seen this cynical viewpoint before. Honest question - what do you know about management consulting? What specific management consulting decisions are you basing this theory off of and how common are they? And how much of consulting consists of much more boring activities like developing new supply chains and inventory systems, rather than Machiavellian strategizing?

Viliam110

I have no direct experience with management consulting.

My opinions are formed by: my own observations of office politics; reading Dilbert; reading Robin Hanson; listening to stories of my friend who is an IT consultant. But I trust the other sources because they are compatible with what I observe.

Maybe it depends on a company, and maybe the one where I work now is an unually dysfunctional one (or maybe I just have better information channels and pay better attention), but most management decisions are completely idiotic. What the managers are good at optim... (read more)

Compare to MetaMed, which tried to disrupt medicine by providing superior diagnostics. Medicine is not about healing!

I'd love to hear this expanded on. On the surface this comment pattern matches to the sort of low quality anti-establishment attitude that is common around here, so I'm surprised to see you write it.

2ChristianKl
MetaMed's Michael Vassar gave a Tedx talk: The legend of healthcare
8Vaniver
Three main sources. (But first the disclaimer About Isn't About You seems relevant--that is, even if medicine is all a sham (which I don't believe), participating in the medical system isn't necessarily a black mark on you personally.) First is Robin Hanson's summary on the literature on health economics. The medicine tag on Robin's blog has a lot, but a good place to start is probably Cut Medicine in Half and Medicine as Scandal followed by Farm and Pet Medicine and Dog vs. Cat Medicine. To summarize it shortly, it looks like medical spending is driven by demand effects (we care so we spend to show we care) rather than supply effects (medicine is better so we consume more) or efficacy (we don't keep good records of how effective various doctors are). His proposal for how to fund medicine shows what he thinks a more sane system would look like. (As 'cut medicine in half' suggests, he doesn't think the average medical spending has a non-positive effect, but that the marginal medical spending does, to a very deep degree.) Second is the efficiency literature on medicine. This is statisticians and efficiency experts and so on trying to apply standard industrial techniques to medicine and getting pushback that looks ludicrous to me. For example, human diagnosticians perform at the level or worse than simple algorithms (I'm talking linear regressions, here, not even neural networks or decision trees or so on), and this has been known in the efficiency literature for well over fifty years. Only in rare cases does this actually get implemented in practice (for example, a flowchart for dealing with heart attacks in emergency rooms was popularized a few years back and seems to have had widespread acceptance). It's kind of horrifying to realize that our society is smarter about, say, streamlining the production of cars than we are streamlining the production of health, especially given the truly horrifying scale of medical errors. Stories like Semmelweis and the difficulty g

Not that I know of. Probably not. Still, I wouldn't hold someone to something they said on a blog years ago.

The sudden very positive karma is extremely suspicious.

5jsteinhardt
I was 85% sure at the time that username2's comment was posted. I'm now 98% sure for a variety of reasons. I'm only 75% sure that the upvotes on "username2"/VoiceOfRa's comments above are from sockpuppets.

LukeProg considers philosophy a diseased discipline

Four years ago! Probably a good idea mention that or check if he still thinks this.

0IlyaShpitser
Did he ever retract his youthful indiscretions?

I believe that Nancy is conservative enough with management that this is not a real danger.

-16username2

Ask for help when you need it. If you're struggling with a class, ask the professor or your advisor where you can find help. If you're struggling with life, find a counsellor. If you're struggling with a paper, find a writing tutor.

Take introductory Calculus, Chemistry and Physics in your first year*. At least at my school it was somewhat difficult to complete a science major in three years, so best to start off as though you are going to do one (unless you really don't want to).

Find a way to contact and talk to people who are where you want to be in the f... (read more)

Less ambitious, but music and art were required at my school. Not much, just one performance to the class and one public piece were required. I don't know how to check if mass shooters were deprived of other forms of public expression.

No, these two though mostly the first. I highly doubt that either one would have had positive karma on LW one year ago. I'm not only suspicious because of these comments though.

http://lesswrong.com/lw/mzw/link_a_rational_response_to_the_paris_attacks_and/cx9j http://lesswrong.com/lw/mzw/link_a_rational_response_to_the_paris_attacks_and/cwuz

Edit: these had higher karma when I linked to them, for reasons that are obvious in hindsight.

2Gleb_Tsipursky
Yup, this comment by VoiceOfRa in particular is something I would pay most attention to. When I originally saw it, it was below the threshhold for comments, and had negative six karma. Next time I saw it, it had positive 4 karma. Since attention was drawn to it, it went to positive 2 karma. Still, I have a lot of trouble believing actual Less Wrongers went below the threshhold, then actually upvoted it to positive 4. I would be willing to bet quite a bit of money sock puppetry was involved.

The fact that two blatant ad hominem comments have positive karma is very very suspicious. How much effort would it be to figure out if there is a voting ring problem or puppet account problem?

0Lumifer
Is one of them mine, by any chance?
-1VoiceOfRa
Seriously, Gleb tried to make arguments based on his credentials as an academic researcher and then complained when the worthiness of those credentials were questioned.

Numeracy and consequence based thinking, sure. But as far as probability thinking goes, I quite disagree for roughly the reasons stated here*.

I tried to illustrate the following but let me try to make it more explicit. In using any sort of mathematical model there are a few steps: The first is to determine relevant parameters that you can try to assign numbers to (such as probability of events). The second is to create a model for how those parameters interact. The third is experiment with different inputs to see the different outcomes so you can optimize ... (read more)

3Gleb_Tsipursky
I hear you about using mathematical modeling. However, I'm talking about quick, intuitive, System 1 probabilistic estimates here, more Fermi style than anything else. Remember, the goal is to convey to a broad audience that they can do probabilistic estimates, too. Let's not let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

The comments on that article don't seem to responding to anything in the article itself. Many are just ad hominem followed by a strongly stated opinion. From what I can tell the Plain Dealer is a relatively liberal newspaper, but the comments don't seem to reflect that.

Anyways, probabilistic thinking has become a reverse dogwhistle for me and I think part of your argument illustrates why:

For instance, consider what happens when Muslim media report an airstrike by Western forces that kills civilians. At any point, myriad Muslim youths are angry at the We

... (read more)
5Gleb_Tsipursky
Actually, I would love it if politicians and analysts used actual numbers. Then, we can check the accuracy of their forecasts. The hard part is getting them pinned down on some numbers. If we can get numeracy and probabilistic thinking into the political system, it seems that we would be much better off as it would allow us to gather real data. What do you think?

What's the goal? Dancing? Gymnastics? Less pain? Without a goal I know I would inevitably give up.

But to answer the question: stretch, do yoga or pilates (these are good because they create a goal, something to improve upon).

I'm not sure. Tentatively, if it is for a popular audience, then you need to do two things: -Convince them that biases or errors in thinking are a problem, possibly by providing some examples. -Convince them that trainings can result in better decision making, not just because they are backed up by experts, but because they work. Describe or give examples of how these trainings improve people's decision making.

0Gleb_Tsipursky
Thanks for the suggestions, will think about these some more.

Upvoted for improving in response to feedback. I know it can be daunting to receive negative or even neutral feedback over something that you put time and effort into. It still feels like an underdeveloped thesis though. The main message seems to be applying behavioral science to all kinds of decision making, but that is very ambitious, and the content doesn't quite get there.

2Gleb_Tsipursky
Thanks for upvoting, and for your own feedback. Thoughts about how to help the content get there?

I didn't know that the Big Bang was compatible with an infinite universe, I learned something today.

Isn't it pretty established that the universe is not infinite?

In any case, I don't think so. Even in an infinite universe there is the possibility of loops or repetitions. Also you can have an infinite but not comprehensive set of events even if those events are all unique.

0entirelyuseless
It hasn't been established that the universe is not infinite, and in fact it seems to be the more common opinion that it probably is.

Thomas, please read and understand query's response above. In attempting to dismantle a concept you don't like, you've lost precision. Formalize your questions and concerns rigorously and then see if a seeming contradiction is still there.

I understand why most historical simulations would be of historically important people, but why would most or even a lot of simulations be historical simulations?

2jacob_cannell
The set of all simulations is irrelevant in this case. What matters for us is the set of simulations that match our observations. For this set, historical simulations of various forms are naturally expected to be predominate. The past can't simulate the future, so we must be in a sim from a future timeline. Loosely speaking this leaves open historical sims and 'fictional' sims. From the inside they may be hard to differentiate (consider that harry potter's world looks historical from his perspective, etc.) If multiple levels of sim are likely, I have a simple argument that fictional sims are more likely than you'd think: for us to be in a historical sim with respect to the root physical universe, every sim level in the stack must be historical. If even one sim in the tree/stack/chain is fictional, then everything below that level is also fictional. So 'fiction' is something that only increases with sim levels.
0James_Miller
See this. Basically, if the future goes well it will have lots of computing power and if a tiny fraction of this power is used to make historical simulations most people in our situation will be living in historical simulations.

I'm not sure what country you live in, but from a relative of mine who works in a cancer treatment centre, there are a fairly large number of patients who eschew treatment in favor of herbal remedies for instance. They eventually get treatment when said remedies don't work but the cancer would have gotten worse by then. It's partly false beliefs, wishful thinking or just avoidance of the issue. Do very many people really believe that a herbal treatment is going to cure cancer and the whole medical community is stupid? No, but for many people it gives them enough to pretend that everything is going to be okay and they don't have to worry.

hesitate to ask dumb questions, to publicly try skills I was likely to be bad at, or to visibly/loudly put forward my best guesses in areas where others knew more than me.

Something else that is in this category for me - bringing up personal conflicts and trying to resolve them as they happen vs ignoring them and having them eventually blow up. It feels bad to bring up conflict but letting it simmer is so much worse in the long term.

He prefers his Facebook audience. It's a more constructive environment, and there are people whose opinions he cares more about (I assume, he may have other reasons).

I think the point of notecard logic that someone using it doesn't care whether the argument was addressed appropriately. And the point of flowsheet logic is that someone using it doesn't care why an argument was unaddressed. I claim that this is a thing that happens and is very common; and is pretty difficult to confuse with legitimate desire to understand and discuss.

However, I think that fixing notecard logic doesn't get you that much closer to good epistemology. Even if your refutations are sound, if you miss the overall logical structure then you can r... (read more)

Well this certainly lives up to the discussion thread title. This is an ill posed question because it selectively carves out a very specific definition of human value for obviously ideological reasons. Why is capital the definitive measure of contributions to the human race? What about the wheel (Mesopotamians), what about fire (Africans - geographically, probably no one knows the taxonomy but certainly not northern Eurasians). What about geometry? Or perhaps something fairly important called numbers. Are those not knowledge?

-1VoiceOfRa
Sorry, this is not the ignorant replies thread. the wheel was invented on the Eurasian steppe. Indo-Europeans (including Greeks) evolved on the Eurasian steppe and then spread out. See above point.

From your last line, I think its unlikely that unlikely that this is going to be productive. It sounds like you think that epistemology is simply erudite nonsense and philosophers need to just accept probably Bayesianism or the scientific method or something. I think this is quite disappointing, mathematicians could have similarly dismissed attempts to ground calculus in something other than loose arguments of the form "well it works what more do you want" but we would have a much less rich and stable field as a result. But if this is a mischaracterization of your view of epistemology then please let me know.

2[anonymous]
Much of it is, yes. This would require that "Bayesianism" or "the scientific method" or "or something" actually be a full, formalized solution to How to Reason Inductively. We currently possess no such solution; this does not, by any means, mean that no such solution can exist and we all have to resort to throwing intuitions at each-other or adopt broad skepticism about the existence and contents of reality. What I recommend is to move past the trivialities, having accepted that the eventual solution will be abductive (in the sense required to dismiss skepticism about the external world or the consciousness of others as silly, which it is), and set to work on the actual details and formalizations, which are of course where all the hard work remains to be done. (By the way, the reference to philosophy-woo is because professional epistemologists tend not to be radical skeptics. The idea that there just isn't an external reality is mainly only taken seriously by undergrads first learning the subject.)

Do you think that Aumann's statement can only be interpreted as six 24 hour days?

Of course, one could charge that it's not intended to do so, and yack on about separate magisteria

This is a very jarring dismissal of a very difficult to resolve problem, despite it being very old. Here are some maps that do not yield testable predictions:

-Other people exist

-Other people are conscious

-I was not created in the last minute with all of my current memories

Epistemology is much more than creating testable predictions.

5[anonymous]
No, it can also be interpreted in uselessly non-predictive ways. I very much disagree. Excuse me, but any sensible forms of those hypotheses do yield testable predictions -- unless you're confused about the meaning of words like "exist" and "conscious". Let's list things out: * Other people will exhibit object permanence, a consistency of state across observations. This is a simple prediction, and in fact, "other people exist" is the simplest hypothesis explaining it. Since "I am in the Matrix" is much more complex, it requires its own unique evidence to differentiate it from the simpler "other people exist". * Other people will behave as if they can introspect on internal experiences. Again, simple prediction (though actually reasonably complex: it requires me to have a theory-of-mind), but a prediction generated by a muuuuch simpler hypothesis than "Other people are p-zombies." In fact, if others are p-zombies and I'm not, then we've got a suspicious, weird uniqueness that would itself require explanation. * My memories will be consistent with present and future observations. And in fact, to be even more specific, the world will be consistent with my previous existence in ways that I don't possess memories matching-up to: I might find my keys somewhere in my apartment where I didn't remember leaving them, and then remember how I dropped them there yesterday night when very tired. Again, you could posit a Matrix Lord or a malevolent deity who's deliberately faking everything you experience, but then you just need an explanation for that which still accords with no Matrix-y stuff happening (like the same black cat walking past you twice, in the same direction, in two minutes). Please leave the philosophy-woo back in undergrad alongside your copy of Descartes' Meditations.
Load More