All of Ritalin's Comments + Replies

Why do you get up in the morning?

0JEB_4_PREZ_2016
my utility function tells me to
0Qiaochu_Yuan
I recently changed alarm sounds and am in the process of installing a TAP of getting up to stretch after I hear it.
0moridinamael
I get an awful headache if I stay in bed for more than a few minutes after waking up. Very motivating. Such a blessing!
1dropspindle
I have four roomies and one bathroom. I set my first alarm half an hour before I NEED to get up, which also happens to be right before anyone else gets up. If I get up with my first alarm (or within a minute or two), then I am very likely able to get the bathroom. (And if someone is already in there, I am guaranteed that they will be out before I need to leave.) I tell myself that if I get up and do everything I need to do in the morning besides getting dressed, I can go back to bed and turn off all my other alarms except for the one 5-10 minues before I have to leave. If I don't get up with my first alarm, there's a possibility that I don't get to use the bathroom before I need to leave for work. Ahh, the joys of NYC life.
5mako yass
There's a genuine value misalignment there. Sleeping(me) genuinely wants to stay in bed for as long as possible and doesn't give a shit about the amount of time it's wasting nor the fact that oversleeping is coincident with dementia, heart disease. Waking(me) has no desire to get back into bed and really wishes Sleeping(me) had given in sooner. Sometimes Waking(me) will set in motion devices to undermine Sleeping(me) on the next morning. A thing called an "alarm clock", techniques such as moving the alarm clock away from the bed to force a transition. It's a neverending war.
7TheOtherDave
Habit. It helps to get enough sleep.
9gilch
Honestly? Because I have to pee.
6Screwtape
If I don't get up, I won't wind up in the office. If I'm consistently not in the office, I don't get paid. If I don't get paid, I won't have be able to buy books or take attractive people out on dates. Running through that chain of logic takes roughly five to ten minutes, which is about how long the snooze on my alarm is, so by the third time it goes off I'm usually out of bed. A useful hack for me is setting the alarm an hour earlier than I need, and letting myself do whatever I want for that hour. Since this is the only timespan in my day I'm guaranteed to be alone and to have no expectations, it tends to be an opportunity worth getting up for. Weekend mornings either have an expectation similar to (though usually lesser than) work, or offer a whole day to goof off. Accordingly, there are some weekends where I don't get out of bed until I either get hungry or get a wave of energy that makes me want to run around.
1madhatter
It becomes uncomfortable for me to stay in bed more than about half an hour after waking up.

TP's work used to be a delight, but there's a very strange disconnect between the cynicism of the characters and setting, and the optimism of the stories themselves, that leaves a bad taste in my mouth. So TP is a bit like eating a lot of cake: sooner or later your tongue starts feeling weird.

I don't think you're getting this. You are a meat sack of chemicals. "Being depressed by the realization" means that your meatsack chemistry shifted.

Well, assuming that said shift was long lasting, I want to shift it back into something more conductive to a productive and enjoyable life. Being miserable feels miserable, and, worst of all, it's boring.

the problem is that your ability to consume and digest that happiness is impaired.

On the contrary, I consume and digest the happiness way too fast. It helps me for a short while, and I feel gl... (read more)

0Lumifer
tl;dr Talk to professionals, don't take advice on mental health from a internet forum.

Right, but there's a difference between being depressed by the realization, or finding it depressing because there's something wrong with your meatsack chemistry.

I wish to believe that which is true, but getting tested and diagnosed for depression is expensive, and so are the chemicals often prescribed to treat them, in money and in secondary effects.

Forgive me if I seem a little impatient, but I'd rather focus on the stated purpose of this thread: media that will help me feel better about myself and the world and foster in me a sense of curiosity, hope, and discipline.

0Lumifer
I don't think you're getting this. You are a meat sack of chemicals. "Being depressed by the realization" means that your meatsack chemistry shifted. How many IQ points are you willing to pay? X-D But if you want a real answer, clinical depression isn't cured by happy movies. The problem isn't that the outside world provides too little happiness for you, the problem is that your ability to consume and digest that happiness is impaired.

I like to think it's not some chemical imbalance, but a philosophical, existentialist despair. Think Saturday Morning Breakfast Cereal, Rick & Morty, Douglas Adams and Terry Pratchett's work... "THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE IS JUST US."

0ChristianKl
I don't feel any despair from reading Terry Pratchett's work. I rather feel pleasure by reading it and laughing about various jokes. I don't think the solution you are seeking is found in fiction. If professional mental health services aren't easily available for you how about CBT workbooks like David Burn's The Feeling Good Handbook?
0Lumifer
Realizing you are a meat sack full of chemicals is philosophical, existentialist despair. Almost at the Rick & Morty level.

Hi! I'm an electrical engineering student close to finishing my MsC. These days I feel really, really tired and disenchanted with my work, in spite of it leading to one of my childhood dreams of working on green energies and/or electric transportation.

The same happened when I went to see a couple of museums involving Norway's naval history, Amudsen's arctic expeditions, and the epic journies of the Kon Tiki and the Ra. Despite all the pain and hardship those stories portrayed, I left full of energy and determination.

Over the most recent years, most of my ... (read more)

0Lumifer
That's called depression. Unfortunately, it's not rare.

Cosmos-like works: for inspiration and fuzzies

The other day, I was watching NDT's Cosmos, and even though it taught me absolutely nothing new, it was so gorgeous and beautiful and inspiring that I couldn't help but feel reinvigorated, and tackle my hard, painful, frustrating work with renewed zest and zeal! I'd like to know of more works like that, *especially in Audiobook format, to listen to while bothering with the mundane daily tasks that don't let me hold a book or a computer in my hands while doing them.

0Ritalin
Hi! I'm an electrical engineering student close to finishing my MsC. These days I feel really, really tired and disenchanted with my work, in spite of it leading to one of my childhood dreams of working on green energies and/or electric transportation. The same happened when I went to see a couple of museums involving Norway's naval history, Amudsen's arctic expeditions, and the epic journies of the Kon Tiki and the Ra. Despite all the pain and hardship those stories portrayed, I left full of energy and determination. Over the most recent years, most of my media consumption, both fiction and non-fiction, involved delving deep into the complexities and flaws of human nature, both on an individual and societal level. While that has helped me become somewhat more socially functional, it has also sapped my optimism and energy to the point that I'm not sure why I get away in the morning, or why bother making any kind of effort beyond ensuring survival when everything is absurd and pointless, and everyone, myself included, is irredeemably stupid and evil in ways that cannot be fixed, only mitigated. I want to feel hopeful, optimistic, interested, engaged, and growing. I want to learn shit that makes me want to strive and thrive.

This is the most terrifying comic SMBC has made yet How much of a point does Zach have, here? Can this be the shape of the future?

0knb
That scenario doesn't seem terrifying to me, though it's pretty vague. He says there are job losses and revolution is impossible but so what? Realistically in this scenario people just vote to raise taxes on capital owners and give themselves a paycheck. Machine labor is apparently extremely capable and near-free in this scenario so owning even a small amount of capital makes you effectively rich in absolute but not relative terms. I guess he's assuming democracy breaks in a way that is pro-capital owners somewhere along the way but that isn't actually stated.
2Lumifer
Luddites are not new.
0username2
Probably not, because people who do not like new society can create a small closed society somewhere where population density is smaller and live off the land.

A self-improvement inquiry. I've got an irrational tendency to be too relaxed around other people; too sincere, transparent, and trusting. In general I'm very uninhibited and uncontrolled, and this goes to spectacular levels when I'm the slightest bit intoxicated. This has come back to bite me in more than one occasion.

I've had trouble finding documentation on how to improve on this. "Being too honest/sincere/open" doesn't seem like a common problem for people to have.

"Beyond good and evil, there is awesome and lame. Don't be lame."?

The primary two biases in question are that humans take threats from intent or agencies much more seriously than threats from random chance.

Could you refer me to the relevant bibliography?

7JoshuaZ
I'm not an expert on this, but my understanding is that one of the first papers on this subject was Johnson, Hershey, Meszaros, Kunreuther, "Framing, probability distortions, and insurance decisions" the Journal of Risk and Uncertainty in 1993 in the in which showed that roughly that people were willing to pay less for insurance for an airplane crashing for any reason than for insurance for an airplane crashing due to a terrorist attack. That this isn't just a form of the conjunction fallacy is shown by subsequent work that I don't have a citation for where people were willing to pay more for the anti-terrorism insurance than insurance against plane crashes due to specific labeled technical problems (e.g. ice on wings, wiring problems).

It is time for man to fix his goal. It is time for man to plant the seed of his highest hope.

His soil is still rich enough for it. But that soil will one day be poor and exhausted, and no lofty tree will any longer be able to grow there.

Alas! there comes the time when man will no longer launch the arrow of his longing beyond man -- and the string of his bow will have unlearned to whiz!

I tell you: one must still have chaos in oneself, to give birth to a dancing star. I tell you: you have still chaos in yourselves.

Alas! There comes the time when man will

... (read more)
6Salemicus
Nietzsche's point is not so much that it's wrong to want to live that way, as small and pathetic. If their supreme values are comfort and health, are these people any better than domesticated pets? Where is the drive to excel? Where is the drive to exceed yourself? They have reduced their desires to match their limited capacities, rather than striven to increase their capacities to meet their boundless desires. Are these people actually happy, or are they merely content? To quote Nietzche elsewhere:
0FeepingCreature
I think what Nietzsche is saying is that there doesn't seem any point to this society.
7kpreid
You used a monospace block instead of a quote block. Remove leading spaces, and add leading “> ”.
2Gunnar_Zarncke
Probably the space at the beginning.

Indeed, I have very little to contribute on my own. I'm mostly here to learn.

I'm not generalizing from the Joker's reflection. Rather, I'm using it as a springboard to talk about an issue that concerns me; namely, what triggers fear and warth and outrage in people and what doesn't. I think this is a different kind of bias from just scope insensitivity or fundamental attribution error or overconfidence bias or anything like that. Those can be overcome by just explaining the facts. This one, however, can't; explaining stuff and putting numbers forth will only get you accused of sophistry. I find that very frustrating.

I think most LWers can be expected to know about those. I'm just curious as to which biases are involved specifically.

Could you elaborate on any specifics? Apparently the plant is legal in most of the world and only prohibited in very few countries.

04hodmt
For me it produced a feeling I can best describe as a tactile analog of the sound of fingernails scraping on a blackboard. It's not exactly pain but something similar and unpleasant. When it wore off I would feel noticeably happier for several hours. I didn't repeat the experience many times, partly because of the unpleasant feeling, and partly because I didn't find a good delivery method other than smoking. I used a concentrated extract strong enough that I could get the full effects from two inhalations, but once I'd done it enough to gain a basic understanding I didn't consider further use worth the risk of smoking. The main effect is strong hallucinations very distinct from those I got from magic mushrooms. Much less colorful, less detailed but more realistic imagery (similar to dream imagery), extremely strong tactile and proprioception distortion, little if any time perception distortion, weaker audio distortion, and completely overpowering all other sensory input at the peak. There was always an undercurrent of unease; unlike mushrooms which felt a very natural and appropriate mindstate for humans, Salvia had a alien and threatening feel to it. The peak only lasts about 2 minutes and the whole thing is over in about 15.

Actually exercise has been suggested to me as the alternative to drugs. "Spinning", specifically. Addictive, very pleasurable, and makes you healthier (unless you overdo it, but sports are much more difficult to overdo than drugs, for some reason).

Describing myself as a "rationalist" pretty much automatically makes a bad impression, no matter how much you explain afterwards that you value emotion and passion and humanity and you're totally not a Straw Vulcan or an Objectivist.

0[anonymous]
"Aspiring rationalist" or "" could be a less negative alternative.

The Anti-Drug

I've seen that a lot of drugs seem to act like "gratification borrowers": they take gratification/happiness from the future and spend it all on the present, sometimes extremely quickly, then leave you feeling miserable for a certain duration, the "low" or "hangover".

I was wondering whether there was any drug that did the opposite, that functioned like delayed gratification: a drug that makes you feel utterly miserable at first, then eventually leaves you with a long-lasting feeling of satisfaction, accomplishment, and joy.

Does anyone here know of such a thing?

04hodmt
In my experience Salvia divinorum works very much like this.
6gwern
Reminds me of a Gregory Bateson quote: Hm, a drug where the negative effects are first... Well, almost all medicines fit this category: unpleasant taste is common. Illegal drugs that people want to take? Ayahuasca comes to mind:
1Torello
There are drugs for alcoholics that make you sick if you drink, so it makes you feel miserable short-run but may help you to be stable/functional/productive long run.
2Metus
Exercise. But more seriously, try asking this again in the next open thread, this one seems flooded.

Court OKs Barring High IQs for Cops

An aspiring cop got rejected for scoring too high on an IQ test.

I cannot begin to understand why they would do that.

0gjm
It may be worth mentioning that the article appears to be from 14 years ago. (Or it may not; for all I know the same policy is still in place.)
0bramflakes
I went into the article thinking the guy would have a freakishly high IQ (160+) where I could maybe see the point, but instead was 125. The judges most likely scored higher than that - aren't they feeling even slightly belittled at the suggestion that they'd be ineligible for law enforcement work because they'd find it too boring?
0MathiasZaman
The weird part is that after being rejected as a police officer he goes off to work as a prison guard. The latter is way more boring. If he's able to put up with that, he should be able to cope with the boredom of law enforcement.
0skeptical_lurker
Their explanation is that he would get bored and leave. I'm not surprised - I've been rejected for jobs more than once due to being too smart. (I'm not just boasting, it does seem relevant)

They're a bit hard to come by, and, let's face it, we can be hard to live with even among ourselves.

Right now I think my two weakest points are:

  • Akrasia: I have a lot of trouble keeping a proper sleeping schedule and not slipping into night owl lifestyle, going to the gym as often as I should, keeping my diet, and, depending on the circumstances, I have a lot of trouble keeping myself motivated, organized, and productive.
  • Relatively poor social skills. They're not nearly as bad as they once were, but I still find myself somewhat clumsy and awkward, in the way high IQ people tend to be. Out of synch. Having different priorities than the folks around me.
... (read more)
2NancyLebovitz
Tentative suggestion: Maybe you need to live somewhere where you have more access to smart people.

Self Help Books

I'm looking to buy a couple audiobooks from Amazon. Any good recommendations?

3NancyLebovitz
This is a filter rather than a recommendation, but read the reviews to find out whether people used the book rather than just finding it a pleasant read. What are you hoping to improve about your life?

So I just finished reading Fate Stay Night, and I feel hungry for more, but its sequels are a lot more silly and laid back, and what I want isn't the easy familiarity of characters whose tales are already told, but the poignant drama and character development, and the poetic narrative delivery, that I'd never experienced before. Does anyone here know stories that have this type of heart-gripping-ness?

0gwern
Have you considered other VNs? You could look at the top rated VNs on VNdb and see whether they sound dramatic enough for you; for example, Umineko (although I'm not sure if I recommend it or not).

.

[This comment is no longer endorsed by its author]Reply

You know, it may well actually make it to 'acclaimed univesal classic' status. It's tremendously good stuff.

Are you arguing against this?

Most emphatically not. I'm very glad to have discovered that, and I'm grateful for EY's impassioned preaching, that made it seem immediately, crucially, urgently relevant. By comparison, when I read books like Think Fast and Slow, or watch shows like Crash Course Psychology or Earthlings 101. I feel like I'm just collecting a bunch of interesting, quaint. and curious trivia that aren't much of a factor in how I think of myself, the world, and my place in it. (And don't get me started on new Cosmos. NDG doesn't preach, he lectures. Carl Sagan at least used to wonder )

5Lumifer
Because it is ridiculous with respect to adults and California politicians think they can get away with infantilizing students and treating them like legal minors.

Well, we've never caught Nature glitching or bugging or even simplifying its calculations, and absence of evidence is evidence of absence. That we're living in a simulation is about as plausible as the Abrahamic narrative, about as falsifiable, and about as proven.

1roystgnr
How would we recognize "simplified" calculations? If the "next level up" laws of physics differ from ours, their idea of what is cheap or expensive to compute might also differ. Even if the upper physics was sufficiently similar to ours to share some characteristics (e.g. the need for large computations to be parallelized and the expense of parallel communication), and our laws of physics were simplified in a way to accommodate those characteristics (e.g. with a limit to the speed of information propagation), would we recognize that simplification as such, or would we just call it another law of physics and insist that we've never seen it simplified?
3Azathoth123
Um, how would you tell? Wouldn't glitches or simplified calculations appear as just additional laws of nature.
0NancyLebovitz
I'm inclined to think that people (especially modern skeptical people) would find ways to paper over small glitches.

What they believe in, or rather, endorse, and what they end up actually doing or wanting to do have usually been at odds. The ideal solution is different for every combination of individual and circumstance: the ideal universal solution is therefore an superstructural (ideological, legal, cultural, etc.) framework capable of running and accommodating any specific arrangement between interested parties. Objectively speaking, I think the only hard and fast rule is "Safe, Sane and Consensual".

0skeptical_lurker
I would agree that the desirability of the Gor future largely depends on whether its consensual.
5Azathoth123
Except the meaning of all three of those terms is culture dependent.

Weird, I thought that link would lead to Straw Nihilist.

4[anonymous]
Good point. Straw Vulcan is rationality-signaling for STEM majors, and Straw Nihilist is the same for humanities majors.

A-ha! That makes sense! Also, it's actually an important virtue! People judge you on it!

At another point in the discussion, a man spoke of some benefit X of death, I don't recall exactly what. And I said: "You know, given human nature, if people got hit on the head by a baseball bat every week, pretty soon they would invent reasons why getting hit on the head with a baseball bat was a good thing. But if you took someone who wasn't being hit on the head with a baseball bat, and you asked them if they wanted it, they would say no. I think that if you took someone who was immortal, and asked them if they wanted to die for benefit X, th

... (read more)
4skeptical_lurker
In the past, almost everyone thought that one should wait until marriage for sex. Now, almost everyone (in my part of the world) believes in serial monogamy. In both these cases people think that their social norms are in the right. I see no reason not to suppose that if Gor lifestyle became the norm then most people (inc. women) would think it right (not just publically saying that its right). I see no objective way to say that any of these lifestyles are right or wrong, unless it can be shown to be damaging the children.

This sounds somewhat like a specialized form of the very Christian value of Resignation, specifically resignation towards the Ineffability of God and his Mysterious Ways, and the seemingly chaotic creation.

Then again God often plays a Dao-like "empty center that lets the wheel turn" in these sorts of doctrines.

That's standard preacher approach. Incendiary accusations to destroy everything you take for granted, then, when you're in tears and directionless, a promise of salvation if you follow their way.

Come to think of it, that's a pattern EY has used extensively as well... "Here's proof that religion is insane and most people are predictably and systematically stupid, including yourself. Now believe in the Singularity, general self-improving artificial intelligence, cryogeny, space expansionism, and libertarianism!"

3dxu
This doesn't seem too implausible. I have no trouble believing that religion is false ("insane" is an incendiary term that I do not believe should be invoked in a non-clinical context due to triggering most people's "mind-killed" modes), as well as believing that people are predictably and systematically irrational (same deal with "stupid"). Are you arguing against this? I have not seen Eliezer ever advocate for his personal views on these topics outside of posts dedicated specifically to said topics. Most posts in the Sequences just talk about basic techniques for rationality, without ever mentioning any of the stuff you've listed. Indeed, the two major prongs of his worldview--rationality and transhumanism--seem to be largely (almost entirely) detached from each other. I'm having a hard time seeing this "preacher approach" you're talking about in Eliezer's writings.

Eliezer doesn't really push libertarianism.

1NancyLebovitz
You should care about people in alternate universes. (Am I getting this right?) Also, it's at least somewhat plausible that you're living in a simulation.
[anonymous]120

Come to think of it, that's a pattern EY has used extensively as well... "Here's proof that religion is insane and most people are predictably and systematically stupid, including yourself. Now believe in the Singularity, general self-improving artificial intelligence, cryogeny, space expansionism, and libertarianism!"

The hilarious thing about this is that Eliezer isn't even very hardcore about libertarianism, and most LWers on the surveys assign very low probability to cryonics actually working, including those who've actually signed up. The... (read more)

Depends on how patriarchal the society is. Few women would like to live in, say, Gor. "Please freeze me again while I wait this out."

-3skeptical_lurker
Few women say they would like to live in Gor. But some would. Some live in Gor-inspired relationships now. And maybe people would adapt.

originated in an intellectual experiment in the 18th Century called the Enlightenment: democracy, egalitarianism, cosmopolitanism, feminism, secularism, individualism and so forth

... Actually all of those ideas are considerably older than the Enlightenment, and can be traced to Antiquity and beyond.

9satt
Egalitarianism in particular jumps out as an odd entry in that list, since anatomically modern humans probably spent most of their evolutionary history in hunter-gatherer bands appreciably more egalitarian than sedentary civilizations.

A riddle for Lesswrong: what exactly is the virtue of Bissonomy?

When I read the article, I got the feeling that there were enough clues to extrapolate a solution in the same way that EY extrapolated the Dementors' 'true natures'. That this was a solvable riddle. I've got my suspicions, but I'd like to hear what you guys can come up with.

3Artaxerxes
Sounds like a noodle virtue to me, or at least it uses the same basic idea for humour. But if you want to keep in the spirit of EY's dementors, the article writer does some wacky reasoning to end up roughly at the virtue of dietary restriction.
327chaos
You say that this feels like a riddle to you, but I would prefer to call it a koan. I think the best hint that we have to the nature of Bissonomy lies in the vagueness of its descriptions, as this is the sort of irony that Pratchett is famed for, and this sort of self-answering riddle has a Buddhist feel to it in turn. This also seems like a useful starting point for another reason: there are only so many potential virtues that Bissonomy can plausibly be, and the standard Western ones are already accounted for. I suspect Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance of both that which is known to be true and that which is uncertain or unknowable. Ignorance, as we all know, is purported to be bliss, and that sounds like biss. However, Bissonomy is not the embrace of ignorance, nor does it bring bliss. Rather, it is the acceptance of that which is known to be unknowable, and it brings inner-peace. Bissonomy and Tubso seem to be connected. Both virtues were forgotten due to their rarity. Explaining what one was should hopefully tell us something about the other. But it's even harder to say things about Tubso than about Bissonomy; the only thing that we know about Tubso is that its name is absurd. In a world where nominative determinism exists, however, this might be the only hint we need. I submit that Tubso is the virtue of absurdism, which surely has a place in Discworld. This fits with the koan framework, and establishes the desired connection between the two lost virtues; a koan's answer is absurd and hints at strange knowledge, but truly understanding a koan requires the recognition that one can never understand it fully, if at all. Of necessity, this theory is largely speculative. We may never know the true answer to this question, and that's okay. And that, in turn, is Bissonomy.
0[anonymous]
You say that this feels like a riddle to you, but I would prefer to call it a koan. I think the best hint that we have to the nature of Bissonomy lies in the vagueness of its descriptions, and there is a Buddhist feel to this. There is also the sort of irony that Pratchett is famous for. Also, this seems like a useful starting point for another reason: there are only so many potential virtues that Bissonomy can plausibly be, and all the standard Western ones are already accounted for. I suspect Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance of both that which is known to be true and that which is uncertain or unknowable. Ignorance, as we all know, is purported to be bliss, and that sounds like biss. However, Bissonomy is not the embrace of ignorance, nor does it bring bliss. Rather, it is the acceptance of that which is known to be unknowable, and it brings inner-peace. Bissonomy and Tubso seem to be connected. Both virtues were forgotten due to their rarity. Explaining what one was should hopefully tell us something about the other. But it's even harder to say things about Tubso than about Bissonomy; the only thing that we know about Tubso is that its name is absurd. In a world where nominative determinism exists, however, this might be the only hint we need. I submit that Tubso is the virtue of absurdism, which surely has a place in Discworld. This fits with the koan framework, and establishes the desired connection between the two lost virtues; a koan's answer is absurd and hints at strange knowledge, but truly understanding a koan requires the recognition that one can never understand it fully, if at all. Of necessity, this theory is largely speculative. We may never know the true answer to this question, and that's okay. And that, in turn, is Bissonomy.
0[anonymous]
You say that this feels like a riddle to you, but I would prefer to call it a koan. I think the best hint that we have to the nature of Bissonomy lies in the vagueness of its descriptions, and there is a Buddhist feel to this. There is also the sort of irony that Pratchett is famous for. Also, this seems like a useful starting point for another reason: there are only so many potential virtues that Bissonomy can plausibly be, and all the standard Western ones are already accounted for. I suspect Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance of both that which is known to be true and that which is uncertain or unknowable. Ignorance, as we all know, is purported to be bliss, and that sounds like biss. However, Bissonomy is not the embrace of ignorance, nor does it bring bliss. Rather, it is the acceptance of that which is known to be unknowable, and it brings inner-peace. Bissonomy and Tubso seem to be connected. Both virtues were forgotten due to their rarity. Explaining what one was should hopefully tell us something about the other. But it's even harder to say things about Tubso than about Bissonomy, the only thing that we know about Tubso is that its name is absurd. In a world where nominative determinism exists, however, this might be the only hint we need. I submit that Tubso is the virtue of absurdism, which surely has a place in Discworld. This fits with the koan framework, and establishes the desired connection between the two lost virtues; a koan's answer is absurd and hints at strange knowledge, but truly understanding a koan requires the recognition that one can never understand it fully, if at all. Of necessity, this theory is largely speculative. We may never know the true answer to this question, and that's okay. And that, in turn, is Bissonomy.
8Lumifer
Bissonomy is the virtue of stability. Specifically, bissonomy is the virtue of knowing (-nomy) how to attach yourself ("bissys" is the name for filaments by which certain bivalves attach themselves to rocks and other substrate) to some stable object. Arguments: * The name. It basically tells you outright (and "bisso" is Portuguese for "bissys", just in case). * She was turned into oysters -- bivalves -- which is a big hint. * She was punished for throwing a mole. What do moles do? They dig! They undermine and clearly, the virtue of stability couldn't be seen undermining anything. * Two children is another hint at stability as families with two children neither increase nor decrease the population -- they keep it stable. * She was forgotten -- for the only thing constant in the world is change.
0[anonymous]
This is rather disorganized, unfortunately. Don't read ahead unless you're willing to be frustrated by near stream-of-consciousness writing. http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/116456/meaning-of-onomy-ology-and-ography I strongly suspect that the virtue of Bissonomy is the virtue of acknowledging that which you do not or can not understand, also known as epistemic humility. (Yes, faith is its sister virtue - don't ask how they're both able to be virtues at once despite their symmetrical character, as that would mortally offend both of them.) The vague and unspecified nature of Bissonomy is the best clue we have as to its nature, there is a Buddhist feel to it. This has enough of a satiric bite to it that I can imagine the author actually writing it. Biss sounds like bliss, which as we all know is the result of ignorance. But Bissonomy is not the intellectual embrace of ignorance, although it might sound like it (haha). Rather, Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance/knowledge that our map will never fully match the territory, and that some parts of the territory are not mappable at all (eg uncertainties of quantum measurements). The main reason to be skeptical of this idea, other than a severe lack of evidence for it (perhaps this allows it to be reconciled with faith, though :p), is that it fails to explain the virtue of Tubso, and it seems to me like understanding one of the lost virtues might require also understanding the other. However, I have a suspicion that the virtue of Tubso might be something absurd like "not throwing shellfish at the shadows of deities", or perhaps Tubso is absurdism itself. The word certainly sounds silly enough for it. If we adopt the perspective that Bissonomy and Tubso are the "lost Buddhist" virtues, in my opinion this makes quite a lot of sense. A hint of absurdism paired with peaceful acceptance, just like a koan paired with its answer. I think adopting this perspective seems like a good idea. There are only so many pot
0[anonymous]
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/116456/meaning-of-onomy-ology-and-ography I suspect that the virtue of Bissonomy is the virtue of acknowledging that which you do not or can not understand, also known as epistemic humility. (Faith is its sister virtue - don't ask how they're both able to be virtues at once despite their symmetrical nature, that would mortally offend both of them!) The vague and unspecified nature of Bissonomy is the best clue we have as to its nature, there is a Buddhist feel to it. This has enough of a satiric bite to it that I can imagine the author actually writing it. Biss sounds like bliss, which as we all know is the result of ignorance. But Bissonomy is not the intellectual embrace of ignorance, although it might sound like it (haha). Rather, Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance/knowledge that our map will never fully match the territory, and that some parts of the territory are not mappable at all (eg uncertainties of quantum measurements). The main reason to be skeptical of this idea, other than a severe lack of evidence for it (perhaps this allows it to be reconciled with faith), is that it fails to explain the virtue of Tubso, and it seems to me like understanding one might require also understanding the other. However, I have a suspicion that the virtue of Tubso might be something absurd like "not throwing shellfish at the shadows of deities", or perhaps Tubso is absurdism itself. The word certainly sounds silly enough for it. If we adopt the perspective that Bissonomy and Tubso are the "lost Buddhist" virtues, in my opinion this makes quite a lot of sense. A hint of absurdism paired with peaceful acceptance, just like a koan paired with its answer. Another reason to be skeptical of my interpretation is that I ironically exhibit a lack of Bissonomy myself in so hastily jumping to the conclusion that it is possible to deduce what Bissonomy means, despite that Prachett provides little evidence around it. But perhaps this is
027chaos
What do you think? Tell us in a week at most, please?
0[anonymous]
http://english.stackexchange.com/questions/116456/meaning-of-onomy-ology-and-ography I'm not very familiar with the series. However, I suspect that the virtue of Bissonomy is the virtue of acknowledging that which you do not understand, also known as epistemic humility. (Faith is its sister virtue - don't ask how they're both able to be virtues despite their symmetrical nature, that would mortally offend both of them!) The vague and unspecified nature of Bissonomy is its own clue, there is a Buddhist feel to it. This has enough of a satiric bite to it that I can imagine the author actually writing it. Biss sounds like bliss, which as we all know is the result of ignorance. But Bissonomy is not the intellectual embrace of ignorance, although it might sound like it (haha). Rather, Bissonomy is the emotional acceptance/knowledge that our map will never fully match the territory, and that some parts of the territory are not mappable at all (eg uncertainties of quantum measurements). The main reason to be skeptical of this idea, other than a severe lack of evidence for it (perhaps this allows it to be reconciled with faith), is that it fails to explain the virtue of Tubso, and it seems to me like understanding one might require also understanding the other. However, I have a suspicion that the virtue of Tubso might be something absurd like "not throwing shellfish at the shadows of deities", or perhaps Tubso is absurdism itself. The word certainly sounds silly enough for it. If we adopt the perspective that Bissonomy and Tubso are the "lost Buddhist" virtues, in my opinion this makes quite a lot of sense. A hint of absurdism paired with peaceful acceptance, just like a koan paired with its answer. Another reason to be skeptical of my interpretation is that I unfortunately exhibit a supreme lack of Bissonomy myself in so hastily jumping to the conclusion that it is possible to deduce what Bissonomy means, despite that Prachett provides little evidence around it. But p

Well, sorting out system 1's inconsistencies can help one feel happier and more at peace with oneself. You can't achieve serenity just by giving in to all your impulses, because they contradict each other.

1maxikov
Sure, and I found that incredibly useful in my life as well - particularly, it helps to stop feeling bad about what's considered morally questionable, but doesn't in fact hurt anybody. But some people may go way over the top on that, and it may be useful to throttle down as well.

diffs between the should-world and is-world are defects

My understanding is that defects are like speed-bumps and potholes, pieces where the harmonious flow of reality is interrupted, dissonances and irregularities. Going with the flow and being in harmony with the world requires more sensitivity, training, and awareness than simply letting oneself get carried by the current. It's the difference between 'surfing' waves, and 'getting engulfed' by them, yes?

Because there's a grain of truth in it that extends far beyond its admittedly limited scope.

5Richard_Kennaway
I prefer larger doses.

The pre-ecclesiastical Jesus of Nazareth is referenced as a Dude avant-la-lettre (as are Sidhartha, Laozi, Epicurus, Heraclitus, and other counter-culturals that gained a cult following). Not to be confused with Jesus of North Hollywood, who is the opposite of a Dude.

Also, again with the smileying. :-(

1Lumifer
Chill, dude :-P

Nah, he's no hero, he's just a selfish man. But, of all the characters, he is the only one who is honest about doing nothing, while every other character on the film (and many, many people in Real Life) go to great lengths to sustain the illusion of activity and productiveness.

0Richard_Kennaway
That doesn't make him any better, he's just failing in a different way. Nul points. And then, some people are active and productive. I don't know the film, but from your description of it, it's about a bunch of losers, in a fictional world from which every other possibility is excluded. Why should I take notice of anything in it?

Dudeism? What in the world are they blathering about?

It turns out Dudeism is a thing. Wikipedia summarizes it best:

The Dudeist belief system is essentially a modernized form of Taoism purged of all of its metaphysical and medical doctrines. Dudeism advocates and encourages the practice of "going with the flow", "being cool headed", and "taking it easy" in the face of life's difficulties, believing that this is the only way to live in harmony with our inner nature and the challenges of interacting with other people. It also a

... (read more)
8maxikov
I would say substantially. LW largely seems to advocate for preference utilitarianism, whereas EA and animal rights subsets of the group often come suspiciously close to deontological "whatever you do care about, here is what you should care about". As a matter of fact, the whole advocacy for consistency in ethics (e.g. "shut up and multiply") can backfire since System 1's values are not necessarily consistent. I'm not suggesting giving up on these attempts, but I guess that many people would benefit from being able to listen to System 1's voice saying "I want to invent a lightsaber" without having System 2 immediately scream "but people in Africa are suffering, and you're just being scope insensitive".
3Risto_Saarelma
Raymond Smullyan's The Tao is Silent is possibly relevant.

I thought it'd be worth bringing to attention here, because if there's one adjective that would not apply to the online LW community, it's "laid back".

Hmm. I have pretty strong Daoist / Stoic tendencies, and a large part of that deals with rejection of "should-ness;" that is, things are as they are, and carrying around a view of how the world "should" be that disagrees with the actual world is, on net, harmful.

I've gotten some pushback from LWers on that view, as they use the delta between their should-world and their is-wo... (read more)

-4Metus
QFT I could speculate why this is the way it is but that would be too much work to type up.
2Lumifer
There is, well, y'know, early Christianity... :-) Matthew 6:25-27: and Matthew 6:34:
4IlyaShpitser
I think the steelman of "The Dude" is that you shouldn't run your mind like a police state, it's cutting against the grain. But "The Dude" is kinda "trampy," for lack of a better word, I don't think he's a diamond in the rough or anything like that.

How about rephrasing it as a "right to a chance to live again"?

2ChristianKl
That's nothing that's found in any constitution or international treaty. It would be possible to create laws that grant rights to cryonics but at the moment we don't have them.

They are two sides of the same coin. "The right to circulation" tells people "you can go wherever you want", and tells States "you can't demand a travel permit every time someone wants to move". "The right to live" tells people "you may go on living if you want" but also "you can't stop people from living if they don't consent to it". The freedom to do something restricts another person's ability to stop you from doing that.

1Azathoth123
Yes, this is correct.

What'd be the difference between that and an ethical injunction?

0ChristianKl
Ethical injunctions aren't things that are argued in front of courts. Courts argue about rights.
0Shmi
I am not an ethics expert by any stretch, so I can only guess. It seems like the opposite of a right, restricting what you can do rather than enabling.

Further research among the second journal's older issues shows that it treats at least two of the other "loves" (romance, family), and support networks in a general sense, but In five issues I've yet to find a single article about friendship as such. The one time it's mentioned in a title it's in relation to romance: "Creating positive out-group attitudes through intergroup couple friendships and implications for compassionate love."

It's like they take friendship for granted!

Understanding how rights work:

This topic still confuses me greatly. Let's take the example of the "Right to Life, Liberty and the Security of Person". Can a "Right to Cryogenic Treatment" be argued from there? Would that, in turn, simply entail that I get to sign up for cryogenic treatment without obstacles and cannot be forbidden from doing so (for instance, cryo is illegal in France), or could it be spun otherwise?

2ChristianKl
The right to life is a pretty recent idea. The US constitution for example have a right not to be deprived of life without due process. It has a right to not to be tortured (cruel and unusual punishment) no matter what. In the US some cryonics folks have registered a religion that allows them there cryogenic treatment without interference. Freedom of religion is actually a constitutional right in the US. In the case of abortion "pro-life" is also a position mainly argued from a position of religion. The France state is strongly secular and you don't get many expectations just because you register a religion. Especially one without tradition such as the one of the cryonics folks. The French state doesn't allow any religion to block autopsies simply by claiming that they have a special burial ritual that forbids autopsies. That's why there's a different situation concerning cryonics in France. At the moment no court considers a cryonic person alive. If it would then the whole scheme of using insurance contracts that trigger on the death of a person wouldn't work to finance cryonics in the first place.
5Shmi
A right is a shortcut in consequentialism (or another normative ethics) turned into a lost purpose. Different rights can and do contradict each other, since they were derived in different circumstances. Thus you can argue for or against anything, by stretching the domain of validity of a suitable right. It all depends on how connected, influential and persuasive you are. Hence lawyers.

Could you expound on that "time-tested ethical injunctions" thing? I understand the concepts separately, but not how they go together, nor how they relate to "rights" as in "La Déclaration des Droits de L'Homme et du Citoyen", the "Bill of Rights", or the "UN Declaration of Human Rights".

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