All of Rofel Wodring's Comments + Replies

I identified that there were perhaps four times where the technology was such that an industrial revolution was possible, but in the first three it didn't happen, perhaps because of the things you cite.

We are NOT in agreement, because I claim that those other three times were NOT possible. They were false dawns that only appear plausible because people think that technological progress, given enough time, can overcome any systemic political barriers.

If you have a biology and/or technology-centered view of civilizational progress, what I say seems nonsensic... (read more)

There were maybe 4 shots at such a breakthrough: the height of the western Roman empire; China after their 4 great inventions, circa 1100 CE; the Islamic golden age; and the Renaissance.

 

I strongly disagree. Let's say A Connecticut Yankee In King Arthur's Court visits those eras and attains supreme political power and has knowledge of all the wonders of the late 19th century and how to recreate them sequentially from stone tools.

His attempt to create an Industrial Revolution in all four cases would explode in his face. The explosion comes in the form ... (read more)

2Dave Orr
You say you strongly disagree but then said things that I think are actually in agreement with my take? I identified that there were perhaps four times where the technology was such that an industrial revolution was possible, but in the first three it didn't happen, perhaps because of the things you cite. But then it did happen the fourth time. That's really not very many tries, was my point. And I don't see that anything you say here is all that responsive that that key observation.

I disagree heavily with a technological perspective to the Industrial Revolution. For a few reasons:

  • It ignores how the Industrial Revolution wasn't just late to and concurrent with the Scientific Revolution -- it specifically fueled its existence. Without the surpluses enabled by the Industrial Revolution, you couldn't support a large enough middle class to draw future waves of engineers and scientists from. Military officers and noblemen are overrepresented in pre-industrial sciences for a reason. The Scientific Revolution would straight up not have happe
... (read more)

Looking at human history:

The transition from Stone Age to Iron Age is fairly straightforward. It's been independently achieved all across the world in very different conditions, there's no reason to think it wouldn't be the same for xenos.

The transition from Industrial Age to our modern age is the same. It hasn't happened as often, but given the wide variety of governments and economies that got there from very different starting conditions, it's not much of an obstacle. And I assume that it would be the same for aliens.

The transition from Iron Age to Indu... (read more)