All of sam0345's Comments + Replies

sam0345-20

Well, duh. Having high status people fall in love with you is an obvious sort of wish fulfillment plot.

Yet in films targeted largely at males, for example James Bond, the sex interest girls are generally low status. High status girls is not a major male wish fulfillment fantasy, whereas in romance, high status guys are as uniform as moaning in porn.. Even when the sex interest girl is a badass action girl with batman like athletic abilities, for example Yuffie the thief, she gets in trouble for stealing stuff, making her low status.

Further I doubt tha... (read more)

-2Multiheaded
Ahahahaha! The fanatical, diehard, anti-modern anti-liberal guy... has played Final Fantasy 7 and was enough of a nerd to get the secret character! HahahahahaHA! Sorry, I just find this kinda hilarious for several reasons.
5Swimmer963 (Miranda Dixon-Luinenburg)
Well, maybe. But I think one of the serious confounding factors is that I don't actually like sex and all the associated relationship crap. My friend, who does, has been in lots of relationships with guys who seemed low status to me (and yes, I had specifically that thought...most of them so far still live with their moms.) Granted, she's a single mom who hasn't finished her high school, and doesn't give off the impression of intelligence when she speaks (apparently I do)–so perhaps her status is closer to theirs, and maybe she feels that it's lower. So it's possible for her to have a relationship where she doesn't get along great with the guy, and sometimes doesn't even like his personality that much, but the sex is awesome and that balances it out. Wouldn't happen with me. The sex is something I put up with in order to make this weird alien beast happy, so that I can have the other parts of the relationship–I kind of like the whole living together, cooking together, "playing house" thing. And I want kids, and don't want to be a single mom. Honestly, that's probably the main reason I make any effort–I don't get lonely per se being single. (Are you implying that my feelings will change and I suddenly will start to get massively lonely once I perceive that my status has dropped and I'm no longer desirable to males?) I'm trying to think of times that I did perceive myself as lower status, i.e. high school. Hard to know if I remember correctly, but I had crushes on guys and a few girls. Same as now. If I fantasized at all, my fantasies didn't include kissing or touching–should have been a clue-in, although at that point I was still expecting to be "normal" with respect to those things. I remember dating a guy at the end of high school who, physically, was considered much more relatively attractive than me, enough that people made comments about it to my friends–but I think he considered me similar or even higher status–I was much more independent, living on my own whi
5wedrifid
What? That doesn't seem true. Many of them are his near equals (but evil or at least rivals). Many are colleagues that are fairly high status. I mean, probably somewhat lower status than Bond. But he's freaking James Bond. He's the highest status person there is (in his universe). High standard to meet!
6Peterdjones
Are you quite sure that's not being pro-consent?
sam0345-10

Yet strangely, I have never heard of a romance novel in which the heroine has an egalitarian relationship with a nice guy who picks up her socks.

a) I've never seen one that had a similar plot arch to what you describe,

Did it have an immortal vampire instead of a prince, a vampire who kills people by drinking them, instead of by chopping them up with a sword?

If so, I would say that would probably be seen by me, though not necessarily by you, as having a plot arch that was not merely similar, but for all practical purposes identical.

Much as all porns... (read more)

6Swimmer963 (Miranda Dixon-Luinenburg)
I've read Twilight and ended up seeing the films with family members. I liked the action scenes. I think I miss a lot of the romantic cues–to me it's just characters looking at each other–and I think I skipped those sections in the books. Well, duh. Having high status people fall in love with you is an obvious sort of wish fulfillment plot. I expect that females in the past who chose, or just ended up with, low-status men with nice personalities got less resources for them and their children than women who were able to attract high-status men. Maybe having that instinct misfires now sometimes–there are plenty of men who are extremely nice and caring and make enough money at their low-status job to provide for a family. But I'm definitely not attracted to guys who come across as significantly lower status than me. The confounding factor for me is that I'm non-neurotypical and I basically don't experience physical attraction, definitely not at first glance–I can have a crush on people for their personality (or status) and I develop a solid bond of affection over time, and although I don't generally like being touched, I can overcome this for specific people with enough repetition and conditioning. But relationships are time consuming, and guys tend to start whining about how I always prioritize other stuff (work, school, extracurriculars) over spending time with them, which drives me crazy because if I spend more time on those things, it's because they are higher priorities for me. And I guess I'm physically attractive enough that I don't have a ridiculously hard time finding guys who like me–in fact, I feel like it being too easy is a problem now and makes me less motivated to try to make my relationships work. So yeah...there's a pretty high activation barrier for me to get into a relationship at all, and if the guy behaves in any way that sets off "low status behaviours" in my monkey brain (i.e. whining about how life is unfair to him, coming across as desperate,
6Eugine_Nier
This is not quite the version endorsed by Church and state until the nineteenth century unless you replace "Dangerous powerful high status male" with "Dangerous but chivalrous powerful high status male".
sam0345-10

I'm having trouble evaluating your arguments because, as a woman with a fierce need for independence, who is really enjoying life in this day and age, I deeply disagree with your premise that less patriarchy is a Bad Thing.

Yet strangely, I have never heard of a romance novel in which the heroine has an egalitarian relationship with a nice guy who picks up her socks.

Roissy would of course dismiss your self report as a shit test and the rationalization hamster running, but then you would say that your observations are more reliable than my and Roissy's ob... (read more)

Yet strangely, I have never heard of a romance novel in which the heroine has an egalitarian relationship with a nice guy who picks up her socks.

I wouldn't know. I don't really read romance novels–I much prefer sci-fi and thrillers, of which there is more than enough to read. I've occasionally watched romantic comedy films–being dragged there by family members, usually–but a) I've never seen one that had a similar plot arch to what you describe, and b) I wouldn't go voluntarily anyway.

So you may be right that the 'intended audience' of that novel likes patriarchy, but I am obviously not the intended audience and I have no idea who they are.

sam034510

as someone had already told you once when people got angry at your defense of Roissy's writing, sometimes the tone does tell us more than the denotation! ... Im absolutely not going to tolerate this.

How then could the same facts be stated in a way that has acceptable "tone"?

How could one state in a tone that meets your approval that the socially conservative family structure that was the ideal endorsed by authority from the New Testament to the Georgian era worked and was good for everyone, and the new progressive emancipated family structure started not working in the Victorian era, and has been working less and less for everyone as it has become more and more progressive?

sam0345-40

And that does happen in practice, I think: most everyone who lived in the USSR would agree that its brainwashing of children was benign in that particular area - teaching cooperation and suppressing zero-sum games.

I don't think so.

Compare East Germans with West Germans. Started off the same race and same culture, yet socialism made them subhuman. Germany has all the problems in assimilating East Germans that a conservative would plausibly attribute to an inferior race with inherently inferior genetics, except that in this case the problems are obviousl... (read more)

-4Multiheaded
This is getting more and more charming.
2[anonymous]
Why did this get down voted? The empirical evidence seems to be on his side when looking at most indicator of egalitarian norms. Like say sharing housework equally.
sam0345-30

Just give me a plain answer of some sort: what do you want power structures within a family and in the workplace to look like?

Every long established functional family that I am aware of, where the couple remained married, the grown up children love and respect their parents, and so on and so forth, is quietly and furtively eighteenth century. Dad is the boss. When the kids were kids, Dad was the head of the family. The family was one person, and that person was Dad. Mum picked up the socks.

So, eighteenth century did it right, and it has all been so... (read more)

-1Multiheaded
Thank you. Frankly, I feel that you're being honest with yourself about the kind of tyranny you want, while Konkvistador clings to his rose glasses. I'd slash your tires, but you're a worthy enemy. Please take note people, I believe that this is the kind of social atmosphere that "neo-reaction" supports, whether its followers start out technocratic/utilitarian or not.
sam0345-10

Do I even need to bring up comparably bad situations created by modern institutions? I mean we even have ones that are perfectly analogous. coughcrushingstudentdebtcough

Quite so. I am fond of pointing out that an eighteen year old girl cannot commit herself to always be sexually available to one man and never to any other, in return for a promise of undying love and guaranteed life long support for her and her children, but can commit herself a gigantic debt that can never be expunged by bankruptcy in return for a credential of uncertain, and frequently... (read more)

2[anonymous]
I agree. We have lost the right to marry as Sister Y says.
sam0345-40

The problem is not nine months servitude, but twenty years servitude.

6MileyCyrus
Who the blazes upvoted this comment? I was hoping the troll toll would cut back on troll feeding, but it won't work if people keep upvoting trollish behavior. (And yes, sam0345 behavior is trollish, even if they earnest hold these views. There is no reason hijack a conversation about CEV into a MRA talking point regarding an explosive political issue) Would one of the mods please kill this thread before we get a pile-up? Edit: Looks like I've been karmassinated, as several of my old comments in unrelated threads are getting downvoted.
sam0345-10

You cannot, or at least should not, ask people to contract to that which they cannot perform. Thus, moment to moment consent to sex, requires in practice moment to moment consent to marriage, which abolishes marriage. Abolishing marriage violates freedom of contract.

Which is not moral progress.

1MugaSofer
I don't understand this. NOTE: please, no-one downvote the parent. I don't want another conversation cut off mid-discussion by the Troll Toll.
2Kindly
It's not as though people cannot obey a marriage contract that requires moment to moment consent to sex.
sam034500

If you are hiring for an important job, family matters, because the apple does not fall far from the tree, and because you can always get more information through family connections that through formal sources.

Hiring people that have family connections is apt to be positive sum, because they cannot get away with bullshit, and because their incentives are more oriented to long term benefits.

sam034550

I meant, our behaviour being closer to our CEV than Homer's behaviour was to his CEV, if that makes sense.

I don't think that makes sense. Also, I am pretty sure that Xenophon's behavior (massacre and pillage the bad guys and abduct their women) was a lot closer to his moral ideal than our behavior is to Xenophon's moral ideal.

Further, the behavior Xenophon describes others of the ten thousand performing is astonishingly close to his moral ideal, in that astonishing acts of heroism were routine, while the behavior I observe around me exhibits major disc... (read more)

sam034510

For example, some dudes say that it's self-evident that all men are created equal. Then somebody notices that this doesn't really jive with the whole slavery thing. So at least some of what gets called moral progress is just people learning to live up to their own stated principles.

By this reasoning, abolishing slavery was moral progress, but declaring that all men are equal was moral regress.

If the fallacy is slavery, then moral progress. What if the fallacy is that all men are created equal?

By your measure, hypocritical values dissonance, we morally ... (read more)

0MugaSofer
Not really. It was previous notions of class/race/nationality granting moral worth that were incoherent morally.
sam0345-20

I don't think violence has declined. State violence has increased. Further, since we are imprisoning a lot more people, looks like private violence has increased, supposing, as seems likely, most of them are being reasonably imprisoned.

Genghis Khan and the African slave trade cannot remotely match the crimes of communism.

And if it has declined, Xenophon would interpret this as us becoming pussies and cowards. Was Xenophon more violent and cruel than any similarly respectable modern man? Obviously. But he was nonetheless deservedly respectable. We r... (read more)

2[anonymous]
This doesn't follow, unless by 'violence has increased' you mean that there are more incidents of violence. But this would be consistant with violence being extremely rare. So are we imprisoning people for violent crimes and at a higher rate? I have the same questions about your claims of increased state violence. Has the rate of state violence gone up, or just the number of incidents? It's the former we're interested in.
sam034520

After 1830 or so there is a PC reluctance to mention certain facts about the Tasmanian aboriginals that people previous to that time found glaringly obvious.

0MugaSofer
What facts? That they were all bumbling idiots? That's just racism. You got that wherever European explorers went, and was demonstrably wrong in every case I've ever come across.
wedrifid140

After 1830 or so there is a PC reluctance to mention certain facts about the Tasmanian aboriginals that people previous to that time found glaringly obvious.

I was actually reading about Tasmanian aboriginals of that time last night. In particular I had been reminded that Melbourne was actually founded by Batman, which just seems kind of badass. Knowing that said Batman acquired some of the resources needed to found Melbourne (then "Batmania") by being rewarded for capturing a notorious bushranger made it seem even more badass. It was somewhat ... (read more)

sam034500

We are fucked. Probably since 1914.

We have been about to be fucked ever since they declared that all men are created equal with inalienable rights, which foreshadowed the collapse of all the institutional barriers that the founding fathers created to protect against democracy.

1Multiheaded
Are you sure about cause and effect in your model? Moldbug says that the modern system, despite its democratic elements, is much less of a democracy than, say, America during the Gilded Age. And yet those memes about egalitarianism and inalienable rights that you seem to hate so much are more popular now than back then. E.g. the Ku-Klux-Klan (1st and 2nd incarnations) appears to have been a remarkably democratic institution. Or take the USSR: it had anti-democratic policies, and was strictly controlled by an official, visible Party aristocracy - yet it promoted women's rights and equality. (Me and my parents + grandparents can testify about that last one.)
6wedrifid
On second thoughts, let's not!
3chaosmosis
I agree that the current system is inconsistent. If women are allowed to abort babies because babies are an expensive burden, men should either have an equal say in that decision or men shouldn't be obligated to support those children. Either one would make sense.
-5MugaSofer
5wedrifid
While the detail of your arguments don't follow I do agree that enforcing moral values from our time onto another time without taking care to first change all sorts of other parts of the culture would make the selected change we call "progress" actually do significant damage to the people we force our values upon. Being able to consider the issue of once-off vs ongoing consent to sex to be the particularly significant issue regarding marriage morality is something of a luxury. Compare this to the issue of easy no-fault divorce... which can translate to "the ability to casually destroy the life of the divorced (female) party, leaving her to starve or be forced into prostitution". This is another thing that I recall Paul speaking on and something far more controversial at the time. It can be dangerous (and naive) to try to judge or force our values on other cultures without thinking through the effects such changes would have.
4Kindly
Yeah, in certain circumstances people are going to have incentives to break promises (and/or contracts). I don't think that this is specific to marriage, and I don't think it makes the concept of marriage invalid.
sam034540

I don't see how any amount of crypto can keep the management+board from favoring themselves in how they account the wealth.

The board contains major shareholders, who would mostly be in favor of honest accounting. It seems more likely to work, than that a democratic government would be in favor of honest vote counting.

sam0345-20

On "rape in marriage" you are clearly wrong. Freedom of contract is morally superior, the traditional contract for the past two thousand years being that a man and a woman each gave their consent to sex once and forever:

The concept of "rape" in marriage defines marriage, as it was originally understood out of existence, marriage as it was originally understood being the power to bind our future selves to stick it out

According to the New Testament:

let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Let the husba

... (read more)
5MugaSofer
I could consent to have you shoot me, but it will still injure and possibly kill me. A child or their parent could consent to being shown graphic sexual or violent imagery, but it would still cause psychological damage. Rape is not theft but assault, and society does not allow such harm to be perpetrated just because someone thought they could handle it.
5wedrifid
Not technically true. Since you have already said marriage is being redefined it just means that the redefinition must be to something which does not necessarily include sex---that is, a contract that allows enforced abstinence. A logically coherent concept even though I find the notion repugnant.
sam034570

If I buy stock in the sovcorp, who protects my property rights? The sovcorp? The sovcorp is run by executives. Why would they not simply, essentially, steal the corporation?

There are cryptographic solutions to this problem: Suppose the stock/money of the corporation consists of crypto signatures. You can use threshold signatures to make heavy weapons only work for the leader most recently authorized by a majority of the board most recently authorized by majority of shareholders.

Of course the leaders could furtively @#$%^ the crypto in the heavy weapon... (read more)

2mwengler
I don't see how any amount of crypto can keep the management+board from favoring themselves in how they account the wealth. We have ALWAYS had good crypto available for money: gold is a sort-of atomic crypto. But gold does not stop the treasurer from embezzling, and if you control the accounting rules, embezzelment per se becomes unnecessary, you just write those expenses off mendaciously as some sorts of necessary expenses. A sovcorp is just a business operation that operates outside of the law of secondary property rights corporations. We have plenty of natural experiments in this. Organized crime is a sovcorp. Fighting it out with other sovcorps associated with competiting criminal organizations, but also fighting it out with sovcorps we associate with gov't: police, da's, fbi, dea, etc. If the mafia promised to pay you a "dividend" on its operations, you could expect to receive that dividend until they decided it was cheaper to NOT pay you. Crypto guarantees I am not buying counterfeit shares in your mafia, your sovcorp. Counterfeiting is not the problem if the sovcorp decides what property rights it owes to its non-controlling shareholders in real time, and by definition of a sovcorp, unconstrained by any outside rules of interaction. Democracy as implemented in the US republic certainly doesn't ignore this. We have FOIA laws, a gigantic structure of oathes of offices and internal controls on the enhanced powers sovcorp agents have. We have a system of "checks and balances" built in from the ground level, and enhanced much since it started. What our republic does not manage is to make the dynamics of ruling elites disappear. What it does manage is to keep the ruling elites from running away with control over the whole system with no oversight and no transparency. Constantly dealing with a real issue in human nature is the OPPOSITE of ignoring it.
sam034520

But you can use "evolution" or "free market", because people are divided about this topics, because many of them just lack the basic knowledge.

Evolution is true, in the sense that there is overwhelming evidence that men evolved from apes, and that likenesses between kinds is a literal family resemblance, the result of ancestral shared blood or sap. "Evolution" is untrue, in that use of the word "evolution" tends to be almost perfectly correlated with distaste for the implications of Darwinism, and complete disbel... (read more)

1MixedNuts
Um, I'm completely unaware of any difference between evolution and Darwinism. Are you using the latter to mean "The theory of evolution is true, plus eugenics is desirable"?
sam0345-20

Is it not at least equally likely that the present is crazy, and the past was wise?

No, it is not. Knowledge is generally cumulative, although there are occasional setbacks

There are frequent major setbacks

If it is not "at least equally likely", it is still quite likely - particularly in matters influenced by politics, where knowledge, for obvious reasons, does not accumulate.

To defend the present, one has to argue truth, not cite today's authorities. One has to compare today's authorities with the evidence on which their claims are supp... (read more)

sam0345-30

But as far as I can tell, Marie Curie was the first scientist to realize that radiation is attributable to internal properties of atoms

Untrue - and for evidence of it being true, you would need to quote a paper by her issued before she was made into a mascot, not a paper about her after she was made into a mascot.

For her to be the first scientist to realize that, she would have to issue a paper in which she asserted that, which she did not do.

What she in fact did was measure various samples prepared for her by her husband and another of his assistants,... (read more)

sam0345-10

From the Nobel Prize website:

This discovery was absolutely revolutionary.

I claimed history was rewritten in the period 1906, 1911. To refute that claim, you need early sources, pre 1906 sources, not today's sources.

Perhaps you should instead look at 1900 sources, stuff published shortly after Pierre Curie discovered radium, rather than post hoc rationalizations published after Marie Curie had already been made a mascot.

The original basis for making her a mascot was the discovery of radium - in which her role was minor and peripheral.

First they m... (read more)

6pragmatist
From the Nobel Prize website: These experiments were conducted in 1897. Radon was discovered in 1900, and Rutherford's research on the transmutation of elements began in 1900 and he performed his gold leaf experiment in 1911. I will admit that I was wrong about Marie Curie being the first scientist to propose that atoms had an internal structure. JJ Thomson hypothesized that electrons were building blocks of atoms in 1897. But as far as I can tell, Marie Curie was the first scientist to realize that radiation is attributable to internal properties of atoms. If you have any evidence suggesting otherwise, please present it. No, it is not. Knowledge is generally cumulative, although there are occasional setbacks. Anyway, I just responded to correct your factual claim. I'm bowing out of this exchange now, because feeding trolls is bad.

Well of course you doubt - thereby admitting what you deny: that saying such a thing out loud would be politically incorrect then as now.

I notice you completely ignored the concrete example I gave of comparable discrimination being explicitly avowed by a premier scientific organization at about the same time (Hertha Ayrton at the RS). No national scientific academy in the West would conceivably respond to a female nominee that way now. How does your model account for this evidence while still maintaining that disallowing a woman from giving a lecture on... (read more)

sam0345-20

This is a time when the Royal Institute could refuse to let her give a talk simply on the grounds that she was a woman.

I find that extraordinarily hard to believe. Can you produce an actual quote wherein the Royal institute gave that reason?

It would be as suicidal to give that reason then, as it would be now.

Of course, in practice, people do tend to quietly assume that women tend to be idiots in certain fields, and might well not allow one to speak for that reason, but they don't say the reason out loud in plain words.

9pragmatist
I don't have an actual quote from the Royal Institution, and I doubt that they specifically gave that as a reason in this particular case. This page from the American Institute of Physics biography says that "custom ruled out women lecturers". I concede that this might be a myth, but I don't think your skepticism is justified. The claim that this sort of reason would be as suicidal then as it is now is, I think, patently false. That sort of discrimination, often justified on the grounds of tradition, was pretty common in the early 20th century. This is a period when women could not receive a degree at Cambridge, even though they could sit for the Tripos. When Hertha Ayrton was nominated to the Royal Society in 1902 (the first woman to be nominated), the nomination was rejected explicitly because she was a married woman. See here. From the Royal Society's response: The relevant charters were only amended in the 1940s.
5[anonymous]
I'd like to see the GPA, LSAT, and SAT citations. Would the suggestion that the GPA thing, if accurate, might be due to young girls being more conscientious and mature than young boys offend men? I agree with many of the things you're saying about affirmative action, about it hurting its recipients more than helping them, on average. The main argument that I can think of in support of affirmative action is that I do think it's common for young children to need role models to have an imagination about what their interests and potential futures might be. For example, I bet Obama's fame will inspire more black people to become lawyers or politicians. Some children do not need role models to want to do something- they see a machine or a performance and are immediately fascinated- but most people are not like this and do whatever they see the people they identify with are doing. Fame (especially in science and technology) often has as much to do with eccentric personality and unique personal story than intelligence and achievement. In Curie's case the fact that she got radiation poisoning probably contributed to her fame today. This is a separate issue from if she was being affirmative-actioned up.
sam0345-30

Your prior should be that a mascot is fictitious until proven otherwise. That a mascot is a mascot is reason to believe that official history has been improved.

In 1906, when Pierre Curie died, his death was reported as follows in the French newspaper Le Matin

"M. Pierre CURIE, le savant qui découvrit le radium, a été écrasé dans la rue et tué net par un camion"

Translation "Mr. Pierre Curie, the scientist who discovered radium, was crushed in the street and killed by a truck"

As for Grace Hopper, she gets credited with the first co... (read more)

3drethelin
You dismiss the history as innacurate because information has been tampered with in a biased fashion, and yet the only evidence you point to is from a newspaper obituary, a forum of information traditionally uninformed and biased. My priors for "mascots" being fictitious are outweighed by my priors for conspiracy theories being fictitious. You say you know modern history's opinion has been changed, which implies that there exists at least some piece of convincing evidence that they did NOT manage to change, which you have read. Show it please.
asr160

Marie shared the 1903 Nobel prize in chemistry with her husband and Bequerel. Seems like relevant authorities at the time thought she had a substantial role. Why should we believe you rather than the Nobel Committee? It's not like 1903 was a big year for establishment scientists looking for female mascots...

I'm not well versed on the early history of programming languages, and don't want to opine based on glancing at Wikipedia. But Hopper appears to have been involved in a bunch of pre-Fortran work on higher-level languages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-0_System -- so this isn't simply about COBOL.

8pragmatist
Marie Curie was regarded as an accomplished scientist by her contemporaries, and it is implausible that this high regard is explicable in terms of political correctness, given the time period. It might still be true that she was the least important member of the team that discovered radium, but the mere fact that a newspaper in 1906 described Pierre Curie as the discoverer of radium is not very good evidence for this. Even if we grant that Pierre was primarily responsible for the discovery of radium, Marie should still be credited with the isolation of radium. She accomplished this four years after Pierre's death, and it is one of the accomplishments for which she received her second Nobel.
sam034500

Near as I can check history, the manufacture of poster girls for science first happens at the start of the twentieth century, but the manufacture of poster girls for computer programming did not happen until much later. Thus history that makes Ada the second computer programmer can be believed, to the extent that it quotes pre twentieth century sources.

Whenever history involves mascots, it should be viewed with suspicion. If people make an undue fuss about a dancing bear, that is evidence that bears cannot dance, rather than evidence that bears can dan... (read more)

2[anonymous]
The language game we are playing is called "name a female computer scientist more influential than Ada Lovelace."
asr130

I would appreciate this post more -- and find it more convincing -- if it came with references or other evidence for its assertions.

sam034520

The traditional critique of democracy is that it leads to what we moderns would call class warfare, demosclerosis, and political corruption (by political corruption, I mean the regulatory state, spawned by Olsonian multiplication of special interests). All of this stuff used to be called the social war, named after the Roman civil wars leading to Sulla's reforms.

To check theory against observation, compare Britain from the restoration to the mid nineteenth century, with Britain from the mid nineteenth century to the present.

Restoration Britain founded the... (read more)

5Mitchell_Porter
Now you're being paranoid. This isn't a bluff, these aren't just words. Compactification on a Calabi-Yau is one of the basic ideas for how to get realistic physics out of string theory, and "crystal melting" is a model of its microscopic quantum geometry.
sam034520

That's just an approximation. Those situations (flat space, hyperbolic space) are really just asymptotically fixed - the form of the space-time in the infinite past or the infinite future is fixed. But in between, you can have topology change.

I don't think string theory as it exists is capable of of describing a space time that undergoes topological change as a result of the dynamics of the strings. They talk about branes undergoing topological change, but they undergo topological change within a given background spacetime that acts without being acte... (read more)

0Mitchell_Porter
There is a string counterpart to the old idea of "spacetime foam", it's called a "Calabi-Yau crystal". The crystal fluctuates and branes are defects in the crystal. There are more things in string theory, sam0345, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
sam0345-40

There was no such stagnation. This is the period which saw M-theory, the holographic principle, and the twistor revival,

I understand M theory sufficiently well to be seriously underwhelmed.

M theory and the holographic principle suspiciously resemble postmodernism: insiders talking to each other in ways that supposedly demonstrate their erudition, without any external check to verify that they are actually erudite, or even understand each other, or even understand what they themselves are saying. Twistors are valid and erudite mathematics, but don't see... (read more)

2Mitchell_Porter
That's just an approximation. Those situations (flat space, hyperbolic space) are really just asymptotically fixed - the form of the space-time in the infinite past or the infinite future is fixed. But in between, you can have topology change. String theory in positively curved space may even allow for topologically distinct asymptotic outcomes, but that is still a topic of great confusion. There is a standard paradigm for applying string theory to the real world - grand unification, broken supersymmetry, compactification. I'd give that about a 50% chance of being correct. Then there are increasingly unfamiliar scenarios, the extreme of which would be a theory in which you don't even have strings or branes, but in which some of the abstract properties of string theory (e.g. the algebraic structure of the amplitudes) still hold. The twistors could swing either way here: twistorial variables may exist for an orthodox string scenario, but there may also be twistorial theories way outside the usual M-theoretic synthesis.
sam034530

You seem to be under the impression that Einstein's papers were not reviewed by professional physicists. That's incorrect: They were reviewed by journal editors who were professional physicists.

But Einstein only needed one journal editor to decide that his paper was good stuff that would rock the boat, whereas under peer review, he would in practice need every peer reviewer to agree that his papers did not rock the boat.

Under the old system, he needed one of n to get published. Under the new system, it tends to be closer to n of n.

Consensus, as Galil... (read more)

5V_V
The exact rules of peer review vary between different journals and conferences, but in general no single referee has veto power. If there is major disagreement between referees, they will discuss, and if they fail to form a consensus the journal editors / conference chairmen will step in and make the final decision, after possibly recruiting additional referees. This seems to be a more accurate process than having a single editor making a decision based on only their own expertise. That's a false positive problem, while you seemed to be arguing that peer review generated too many false negatives. Anyway, neither referees nor editors try to replicate experimental results while reviewing a paper. That's not the goal of the review process. The review process is not intended to be a scientific "truth" certification. It is intended to ensure that a paper is innovative, clearly written, easy to place in the context of the research in its field, doesn't contain glaring methodological errors and is described in sufficient detail to allow experimental replication. Replication is something that is done by independent researchers after the paper is published.
sam034500

For example, when discussing gender-related problems, [edit] one solution may be generally better for men, while another solution may be generally better for women

Love is war.

All is fair in love and war.

Individually optimal behavior by each male doing what is best for himself, and each female doing what is best for herself, is unlikely to be optimal as for males and females as a whole, or even particular male/female couples.

Such prisoners dilemma problems are normally solved by coercion - chastity imposed on females, shotgun marriages and continued mate... (read more)

3wedrifid
The second of those quotes is superior (ie. less denotatively insane) but I note that if you have already assumed the first quote half of the second is redundant.
sam034530

The modern peer review system is something Einstein didn't have to deal with for example.

Obviously none of his great papers could have survived peer review. Some people argue that this was merely because of trivial stylistic issues, and could have been fixed by giving citations in correct format, and so on and so forth, so that they read like modern peer reviewed papers.

Perhaps

But the fact that he got his degree with a boring trivial paper, when he had several of his greatest papers in hand, suggests that there was no fixing them. If they could not ... (read more)

2NancyLebovitz
Is there any way to tell whether a lack of major new science is the result of institutional problems or if it's caused by an absence of major discoveries which could be made with current tools?
0benelliott
Never mind DNA itself, which was discovered post Einstein
4V_V
You seem to be under the impression that Einstein's papers were not reviewed by professional physicists. That's incorrect: They were reviewed by journal editors who were professional physicists. The modern peer review system was invented because during the 20th century the submissions to journals greatly increased both in number and in sub-field specialization. While journals also increased in number and specialization, they couldn't keep up with that and had to "outsource" the review process. This is quite wrong. Even Einstein's field, theoretical physics, had significant progress until at least the mid-70s, when the Standard Model was completed. Subsequent stagnation was probably largely due to the difficulty of obtaining experimental data: testing all the features of the Standard Model required an enormous effort culminating in the LHC, and presently we can't do experiments on Plank scale phenomena. Other areas of science greatly progressed. Biology, for instance, is still far from stagnation.
[anonymous]110

I'm guessing this post was down voted because of author not content because I can't find anything wrong with the latter.

But the fact that he got his degree with a boring trivial paper, when he had several of his greatest papers in hand, suggests that there was no fixing them.

Yes this is evidence towards him not being sure those papers could be fixed.

Getting a group of people to function together so that their output is smarter than any one of them is hard, a deep and unsolved problem.

Exactly, coordination is hard. Perverse incentives, Goodhart's... (read more)

sam034510

I follow your comments, because you usually have something interesting to say - and usually something that gets a little close to the borders of what is permissible on less wrong.

Now, sorry to say, your recent comments have become boring. Has Less Wrong become even more repressive, or did you just run out of things to say?

5[anonymous]
You are right on my recent comments being somewhat boring. In the past I've been told by people that they tend to read my posts because they are usually high quality correction or fun gadflyish needling. Maybe my comments are more boring because there are fewer things wrong in interesting ways? Not that I would imply there are fewer things wrong in general unfortunate. I mostly agree with all recent criticisms I've made but some of it was pretty dull to write, I guess that shows. There are some signs that the political discourse is on a lower level than it was. I unfortunately often end up talking about politics, as I saw politically motivated stupidity on some topics. The other explanation is that I've been using the site to procrastinate more and thus didn't bother to abstain from marginal comments. There is however no excuse for spending way too much time on useless crappy meta debates as I did about a week or two ago. When I think of what posts of value I think made in the past 30 days in which I'm apparently among the top contributors all I can think of that is of real value are the link posts. Which aren't bad, as I think LessWrong doesn't as a community does not update when exposed to good ideas and material from the outside. That this is the only kind of recent posts I see value in does shows I haven't either not taken the time or had the inspiration for new original ideas or synthesis. Perhaps I need to study more new material, perhaps I need to do more thinking, perhaps I need a break. On the other hand I do think LW didn't really learn what I hoped it would from my old comments, so maybe this is more a problem of me sounding like a broken record because I have to keep repeating the same points, since this bores me I do it more poorly than before. So perhaps I need a new venue. I've been meaning to take another month's leave from the site starting some time this September, to improve the quality of my writing. I guess this is as good as any day to star
sam034580

Sorry, but it's hardly possible to fake such a tremendous increase in such basic statistics.

And equally hard, no doubt to fake the very similar tremendous increase in the basic statistics for North Korea, Cuba, and Ethiopia.

I notice that in the case of Marxist Ethiopia, we saw a tremendous increase in basic statistics despite bloody and unending civil war, and the massive use of artificial famine to terrorize the peasants.

And when the Marxist Ethiopian regime was finally overthrown in that bloody and terrible civil war, and peace returned, their stati... (read more)

sam034500

Under Mao, life expectancy literally doubled and the literacy rate went from 20-25% to 80%. And the increase in life expectancy is largely attributed to his vast state healthcare initiatives.

I have heard similarly glorious statistics for Cuba, and, until quite recently, for North Korea.

Visiting Cuba in 1992 it was obvious to me that living standards, literacy, and health, had collapsed since the revolution. People are living in the decayed remnants of what had been decently comfortable houses fifty years ago. People were hungry, frightened, and desper... (read more)

4Multiheaded
Sorry, but it's hardly possible to fake such a tremendous increase in such basic statistics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_People%27s_Republic_of_China_%281949%E2%80%931976%29#Mao.27s_legacy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_China#Post-1949_history It certainly did; I never claimed otherwise, and neither did Lindsay. Mao's leadership was a little unhinged to say the least. However, we're talking about the really existing alternatives to China's particular situation in 1949, not the Cuban revolution or anything else. Um, looks like that's exactly what happened.
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