All of sludgepuddle's Comments + Replies

I don't know whether augmentation is the right step after backing off or not, but I do know that the simpler "back off" is a much better message to send to humanity than that. More digestible, more likely to be heard, more likely to be understood, doesn't cause people to peg you as a rational tech bro, doesn't at all sound like the beginning of a sci-fi apocalypse plot line. I could go on.

I have to confess that I did some skimming, and by ctrl-f it looks like I actually read right up to the first half of that paragraph before I got lazy. Fwiw it was due to mental and time constraints and nothing to do with the quality of writing.

I'm not sure if this objection has been pointed out or is even valid.. I think the argument from approximate linearity is probably wrong, even if we're talking editing embryos and not adults. In machine learning we make the learning rate small enough that the map of the error over the parameter space appears linear. This means scaling the gradients way down, but my intuition is that it's minimizing the euclidean distance covered by each step that's "doing the work" of making everything appear flat. If that's correct then flipping 20000 genes is a massive s... (read more)

I mean, I explicitly state in the post that I don't think we'll be able to reach IQs far outside the normal human range by just flipping alleles:

I don’t expect such an IQ to actually result from flipping all IQ-decreasing alleles to their IQ-increasing variants for the same reason I don’t expect to reach the moon by climbing a very tall ladder; at some point, the simple linear model will break down.

So yes, I agree with you

A sequence of still frames is a video, if the model was trained on ordered sequences of still frames crammed into the context window, as claimed by the technical report, then it understands video natively. And it would be surprising if it didn't also have some capability for generating video. I'm not sure why audio/video generation isn't mentioned, perhaps the performance in these arenas is not competitive with other models

6Tao Lin
video can get extremely expensive without specific architectural support. Eg a folder of images takes up >10x the space of the equivalent video, and using eg 1000 tokens per frame for 30 frames/second is a lot of compute

Sure, but they only use 16 frames, which doesn't really seem like it's "video" to me.

Understanding video input is an important step towards a useful generalist agent. We measure the video understanding capability across several established benchmarks that are held-out from training. These tasks measure whether the model is able to understand and reason over a temporally-related sequence of frames. For each video task, we sample 16 equally-spaced frames from each video clip and feed them to the Gemini models. For the YouTube video datasets (all datasets except NextQA and the Perception test), we evaluate the Gemini models on videos that were still publicly available in the month of November, 2023

We still have a hard problem since misuse of AI, for example using it to secure permanent control over the world, would be extremely tempting. Under this assumption outcomes where everyone doesn't die but which are as bad or worse are much more likely than they would be under its negation. I think the answer to avoiding non awful futures looks similar, we agree globally to slow down before the tech could plausibly pose a big risk, probably that means right around yesterday. Except instead of just using the extra time to do scientific research we also make the appropriate changes to our societies/governments.

This seems to me the opposite of a low bandwidth recursion. Having access the the entire context window of the previous iteration minus the first token, it should be pretty obvious that most of the relevant information encoded by the values of the nodes in that iteration could in principal be reconstructed, excepting the unlikely event that first token turns out to be extremely important. And it would be pretty weird if much if that information wasn't actually reconstructed in some sense in the current iteration. An inefficient way to get information from one iteration to the next, if that is your only goal, but plausibly very high bandwidth.

6dr_s
I'd say it's pretty low bandwidth compared to the wealth of information that must exist in the intermediate layers. Even just the distribution of logits gets collapsed into a single returned value. You could definitely send back more than just that, but the question is whether it's workable or if it just adds confusion.
9FeepingCreature
Which is why asking an LLM to give an answer that starts with "Yes" or "No" and then gives an explanation is the worst possible way to do it.

I'm surprised you were only able to predict whether you'd taken caffeine 80% of the time. 200 mg is not a heroic dose, but on little to no tolerance it should be quite noticeable.

3niplav
Blinding is powerful! Not sure where you get 80% from, do you mean the number of times when I was directionally right in the prediction?

And of course if we believe efficiency is the way to go for the next few years, that should scare the shit out of us, it means that even putting all gpu manufacturers out of commission might not be enough to save us should it become obvious that a slowdown is needed

1Akram Choudhary
shutting down GPU production was never in the Overton window anyway. This makes little difference. Even if further scaling isnt needed most people cant afford the 100M spent on gpt4.

Maybe temporarily efficiency improvements will rule, but surely once the low and medium hanging fruit is exhausted parameter count will once again be ramped up, would bet just about anything on that

8sludgepuddle
And of course if we believe efficiency is the way to go for the next few years, that should scare the shit out of us, it means that even putting all gpu manufacturers out of commission might not be enough to save us should it become obvious that a slowdown is needed

However good an idea it is, it's not as good an idea as Aaronson just taking a year off and doing it on his own time, collaborating and sharing whatever he deems appropriate with the greater community. Might be financially inconvenient but is definitely something he could swing.

How do we deal with institutions that don't want to be governed, say idk the Chevron corporation, North Korea, or the US military?

6samshap
In my model, Chevron and the US military are probably open to AI governance, because: 1 - they are institutions traditionally enmeshed in larger cooperative/rule-of-law systems, AND 2 - their leadership is unlikely to believe they can do AI 'better' than the larger AI community. My worry is instead about criminal organizations and 'anti-social' states (e.g. North korea) because of #1, and big tech because of #2. Because of location, EA can (and should) make decent connective with US big tech. I think the bigger challenge will be tech companies in other countries , especially China.
2Nicholas / Heather Kross
My co-blogger Devin saw this comment before I did, so these points are his. Just paraphrasing: We can still do a lot without "coordinating" every player, and governance doesn't mean we should be ham-fisted about it. Furthermore, even just doing coordination/governance work with some of the major US tech companies (OpenAI, Google, Microsoft, Facebook) would be really good, since they tend to be ahead of the curve (as far as we know) with the relevant technologies. Devin also noted that there could be tension between "we're coordinating to all extend our AI development timelines somewhat so things aren't rushing forward" and "OpenAI originally had a goal to develop aligned AI before anyone else developed unaligned AI". However, I think this sort of thing is minor, and doing more governance now requires some flexibility anyway.

Well I don't think it should be possible to convince a reasonable person at this point in time. But maybe some evidence that we might not be doomed. Yudkowsky and other's ideas rest on some fairly plausible but complex assumptions. You'll notice in the recent debate threads where Eliezer is arguing for inevitability of AI destroying us he will often resort to something like, "well that just doesn't fit with what I know about intelligences". At a certain point in these types of discussions you have to do some hand waving. Even if it's really good hand wavin... (read more)

While we're sitting around waiting for revolutionary imaging technology or whatever, why not try and make progress on the question of how much and what type of information can we obscure about a neural network and still approximately infer meaningful details of that network from behavior. For practice, start with ANNs and keep it simple. Take a smallish network which does something useful, record the outputs as it's doing its thing, then add just enough random noise to the parameters that output deviates noticeably from the original. Now train the perturbe... (read more)

This is outright saying ETH is likely to outperform BTC, so this is Scott’s biggest f*** you to the efficient market hypothesis yet. I’m going to say he’s wrong and sell to 55%, since it’s currently 0.046, and if it was real I’d consider hedging with ETH.

I'm curious what's behind this, is Zvi some sort of bitcoin maximalist? I tend to think that bitcoin having a high value is hard to explain, it made sense when it was the only secure cryptocurrency out there but now it's to a large degree a consequence of social forces rather than economic ones. Ether I can see value in, since it does a bunch of things and there's at least an argument that it's best in class for all those.

So many times I've been reading your blog and I'm thinking to myself, "finally something I can post to leftist spaces to get them to trust Scott more", and then I run into one or two sentences that nix that idea. It seems to me like you've mostly given up on reaching the conflict theory left, for reasons that are obvious. I really wish you would keep trying though, they (we?) aren't as awful and dogmatic as they appear to be on the internet, nor is their philosophy as incompatible. For me, it's less a matter of actually adopting the conflict perspective, and more just taking it more seriously and making fun of it less.

1Kenny
I'm not sure it's really possible to reach any conflict theorists if you think their theorized conflict is a mistake. It seems like part of the problem in doing so is that the theorized conflicts are (at least) implicitly zero-sum. I'd think it's pretty obvious, that at least 'in theory', billionaire philanthropy could be net-positive for 'The People', but it's hard to even imagine how one would go about convincing someone of that if they're already convinced that (almost) everyone's actions are attacks against the opposing side(s), e.g. philanthropy is 'really just' a way for billionaires to secure some other kind of (indirect) benefit to themselves and their class.

What about some form of indirect supervision, where we aim to find transcripts in which H has a decision of a particular hardness? A would ideally be trained starting with things that are very very easy for H, with the hardness ramped up until A maxes out it's abilities. Rather than imitating H, we use a generative technique to create fake transcripts, imitating both H and it's environment. We can incorporate into our loss function the amount of time H spends on a particular decision, the reliability of that decision, and maybe some kind of complexity measure on the transcript to find easier/harder situations which are of genuine importance to H.

Isn't The Least Convenient Possible World directly relevant here? I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned yet.

8shokwave
It occurs to me that the Least Convenient World principle, and its applications in producing trolley problems, is actually a dangerous idea. The best response in any situation that looks like a trolley problem is to figure out how to defuse the situation. So maybe you can change the tracks so the trolley runs down a different line; maybe you can derail it with a rock on the tracks; maybe you can warn the five people or somehow rescue them; perhaps even you could jump onto the trolley and apply the brakes. These options are surely less feasible than using the fat man's body, but the cost of the 'fat man' course of action is one life. (Naively, if the expected outcome of the third way is less than 1 life lost, the third way is preferable) This is a little bit like that Mad Psychologist joke: The trolley problems tend to forbid this kind of thinking, and the Least Convenient Possible World works to defeat this kind of thinking. But I think that this third-way thinking is important, that when faced with being gored by the left horn or the right horn of the bull, you ought to choose to leap between the horns over the bull's head, and that if you force people to answer this trolley problem with X or Y but never Z, they will stop looking for Zs in the real world. Alternatively, read conchis's post , as it is far more succinct and far less emotive.

Perhaps I'm just being dense, but I don't really get what Carl Sagan's look has to do with praise, or why you should find it disgusting.

6Craig_Heldreth
I am not describing Carl Sagan's default facial expression when on camera during his series, which I would describe as more of wonder and curiosity and "hey look at this cool thing I found out!"; this I enjoy and empathize with completely. I am talking about those specific scenes which are patterned after the Star Trek television show on the set of the bridge of the starship Enterprise where the big video display has the stars whooshing by. In those scenes in Cosmos they have astronomical features--images of galaxies and nebula and planets and asteroids--on his "spaceship" monitor and they have closeups of Carl Sagan's orgasm look. The look the guys have in porno when they tell her "oh baby it's never been like this before". Not that I have any provable idea what Sagan looked like when he had an orgasm. But I believe I do have a pretty good idea what Sagan's O face looked like after watching those scenes in Cosmos. I find that disgusting. That is the risk with an appeal to emotion. If it is ineffective you can turn your audience off. Disgust them. The Enterprise bridge staging may have worked great in a cartoon Cosmos with Daffy Duck and Bugs Bunny. In the real series it did not work for me at all.

One thing I've personally witnessed is people claiming to have had the exact same vivid dream the night before. I'm talking stuff like playing scrabble with Brad Pitt and Former President Carter on the summit of mount McKinley, so it seems unlikely that they were both prompted by the same recent event. Assuming that these people haven't been primed until after the fact, I would expect even stronger effects to be possible for those who have.

3jimrandomh
Intuitively, I would expect memories of dreams to be different than memories of reality - since dreams themselves are just confabulations in the first place, and memories of them fade rapidly, it's not entirely surprising that people trying to remember their dreams would get confabulations instead. This suggests a cause for many cases of mass hallucination: sleep deprivation. It's known to cause hallucinations, and in some settings it happens to whole crowds of people at once. Add an ambiguous stimulus and a few people shouting out their interpretation, and you have all the ingredients for a shared hallucination.
0[anonymous]
Intuitively, I would expect memories of dreams to be different than memories of reality - since dreams themselves are just confabulations in the first place, and memories of them fade rapidly, it's not entirely surprising that people trying to remember their dreams would get confabulations instead. This suggests a cause for many cases of mass hallucination: sleep deprivation. It's known to cause hallucinations, and in some settings it happens to whole crowds of people at once. Add an ambiguous stimulus and a few people shouting out their interpretation, and you have all the ingredients for a shared hallucination.

If you believe in Tegmark's multiverse, what's the point of uploading at all? You already inhabit an infinity of universes, all perfectly optimized for your happiness.

Personally I'm very inclined toward Tegmark's position and I have no idea how to answer the above question.

2Will_Newsome
Infinity, yes, but the relative sizes of infinity matter. There's also an infinity of universes of infinite negative utility. Uploading yourself is increasing the relative measure of 'good' universes. This is especially true if you think of 'measure' or 'existence' being assigned to computations via a universal prior of some kind as proposed by Schmidhuber and almost everyone else (and not a uniform prior as Tegmark tended towards for some reason). You want as large a swath of good utility in the 'simple' universes as possible, since those universes have the most measure and thus 'count' more according to what we might naively expect our utility functions to be. Uploading in a simple universe would thus be worth significantly more utility than the infinity of universes all optimized for your happiness. That said, it's likely that our intuitions about this are all really confused: UDT is the current approach to reasoning about these issues, and I'm not fit to explain the intuitions or implications of UDT. Wei? Nesov? Anyone like to point out how all of this works, and how anthropics gets dissolved in the meantime?

I am extremely poor at visualization, can't even picture a line or a circle (I just tried it) and I don't remember images from my dreams. Strangely, when I was a child, I was sometimes able to visualize, but only with extreme effort. More recently, I have experienced what I would call "brain movies", involuntary realistic visualizations, under the influence of opiates.

It seems I am fundamentally capable of visual thinking, but my brain is just not in the habit, though I wouldn't mind being able to summon the ability. It sounds kinda cool.

0erratio
I've found that I've gotten better at visualising in the last couple of years. No idea how or why though, it's not like I've been practising.

There are definitely cases where there is little hope of proving "100% intended performance". For example, RSA only works as intended if factoring is hard. Most computer scientists strongly believe this is true, but this is not likely to be proven any time soon.

Low dose ketamine has been shown to promote synaptogenesis in the prefrontal cortex. (in rats) Link to abstract

It is currently being investigated as a potential antidepressant in humans, but based on anecdotal evidence, it seems likely that it's also a nootropic.

Alexander Grothendieck used the analogy of opening a nut to illuminate two different styles of doing mathematics. One way is to strike the nut repeatedly with a hammer and chisel.

I can illustrate the second approach with the same image of a nut to be opened. The first analogy that came to my mind is of immersing the nut in some softening liquid, and why not simply water? From time to time you rub so the liquid penetrates better, and otherwise you let time pass. The shell becomes more flexible through weeks and months—when the time is ripe, hand pressure is enough, the shell opens like a perfectly ripened avocado!