All of SteveZ's Comments + Replies

SteveZ40

Thanks for posting this. I am a bit surprised that the forecasts for hardware-related restrictions are so low. Are there any notes or details available on what led the group to those numbers?

In particular the spread between firmware-based monitoring (7%) and compute capacity restrictions (15%) seems too small to me. I would have expected either a higher chance of restrictions or lower chance of on-chip monitoring because both are predicated on similar decision-making steps but implementing and operating an end-to-end firmware monitoring system has many technical hurdles.

4_will_
Thanks for this question. Firstly, I agree with you that firmware-based monitoring and compute capacity restrictions would require similar amounts of political will to happen. Then, in terms of technical challenges, I remember one of the forecasters saying they believe that "usage-tracking firmware updates being rolled out to 95% of all chips covered by the 2022 US export controls before 2028" is 90% likely to be physically possible, and 70% likely to be logistically possible. (I was surprised at how high these stated percentages were, but I didn't have time then to probe them on why exactly they were at these percentages—I may do so at the next workshop.) Assuming the technical challenges of compute capacity restrictions aren't significant, fixing compute capacity restrictions at 15% likely, and applying the following crude calculation: P(firmware) = P(compute) x P(firmware technical challenges are met) = 0.15 x (0.9 x 0.7) = 0.15 x 0.63 = 0.0945 ~ 9% 9% is a little above the reported 7%, which I take as meaning that the other forecasters on this question believe the firmware technical challenges are a little, but not massively, harder than the 90%–70% breakdown given above.
SteveZ20

Yeah pretty much. If you think about mapping something like matrix-multiply to a specific hardware device, details like how the data is laid out in memory, utilizing the cache hierarchy effectively, efficiently moving data around the system, etc are important for performance.

SteveZ10

This is a really nice analysis, thank you for posting it! The part I wonder about is what kind of "tricks" may become economically feasible for commercialization once shrinking the transistors hits physical limits. While that kind of physical design research isn't my area, I've been led to believe there are some interesting possibilities that just haven't been explored much because they cost a lot and "let's just make it smaller next year" has traditionally been an easier R&D task.

2Marius Hobbhahn
Yeah, I also expect that there are some ways of compensating for the lack of miniaturization with other tech. I don't think progress will literally come to a halt. 
SteveZ40

Yep, I think you're right that both views are compatible. In terms of performance comparison, the architectures are quite different and so while looking at raw floating-point performance gives you a rough idea of the device's capabilities, performance on specific benchmarks can be quite different. Optimization adds another dimension entirely, for example NVIDIA has highly-optimized DNN libraries that achieve very impressive performance (as a fraction of raw floating-point performance) on their GPU hardware. AFAIK nobody is spending that much effort (e.g. teams of engineers x several months) to optimize deep learning models on CPU these days because it isn't worth the return on investment.

2Mau
Thanks! To make sure I'm following, does optimization help just by improving utilization?
SteveZ30

I’m finishing my PhD in hardware/ML and I’ve been thinking vaguely about hardware approaches for AI safety recently, so it’s great to see other people are thinking about this too! I hope to have more free time once I finish my thesis in a few weeks, and I’d love to talk more to anyone else who is interested in this approach and perhaps help out if I can.

SteveZ1810

I think this is a really nice write-up! As someone relatively new to the idea of AI Safety, having a summary of all the approaches people are working on is really helpful as it would have taken me weeks to put this together on my own.

Obviously this would be a lot of work, but I think it would be really great to post this as a living document on GitHub where you can update and (potentially) expand it over time, perhaps by curating contributions from folks. In particular it would be interesting to see three arguments for each approach: a “best argument for”, “best argument against” and “what I think is the most realistic outcome”, along with uncertainties for each.

9Thomas Larsen
Thanks!  I probably won't do this, but I agree it would be good.  I agree that this would be good, but especially hard to do in a manner endorsed by all parties.  I might try to write a second version of this post that tries to write this out, specifically, trying to clarify the assumptions on what the world has to look like for this research to be useful.