All of Torello's Comments + Replies

Torello*10

My review of Four Thousand Weeks: Time Management for Mortals.  

I think there's productivity or life-hack kind of content on LessWrong, and I think this book is a good addition to that type of thinking, and it might be a useful counter-point to existing lenses or approaches.

https://digitalsauna.wordpress.com/2022/07/24/four-thousand-weeks-by-oliver-burkeman-2021-second-review/ 

Link to my notes/summary of "The Dictator's Handbook".  

Probably of interest to people here thinking about the dynamics that govern political behavior in nation states, companies, etc. 

https://digitalsauna.wordpress.com/2022/07/13/the-dictators-handbook-by-bruce-bueno-de-mesquita-and-alastair-smith-2011/

There's also a deep dive LessWrong post on the topic:

https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/N6jeLwEzGpE45ucuS/building-blocks-of-politics-an-overview-of-selectorate

I haven't read through the whole post, but just finished The Dictator's Handbook and was looking for related reading.  This post seems very comprehensive.  

I'm linking to my notes/comments on the book.  It's a short summary of that book, which is basically a short summary of this post.  

If you read this above post, I don't think you would get any additional info from my book notes. 

https://digitalsauna.wordpress.com/2022/07/13/the-dictators-handbook-by-bruce-bueno-de-mesquita-and-alastair-smith-2011/

Thanks--a useful and thoughtful reply.

Answer by Torello10

The Moral Animal by Robert Wright

Good introduction to the general idea of evolutionary psychology (human psychology has been influenced/shaped by natural selection, like the rest of the body).  

Then discusses some particular psychological traits (jealousy, love, altruism, reciprocity, etc) through this lens. 

Not really the hard science desired in the original post, but hope someone finds the recommendation useful.  

Review/notes here: 

https://digitalsauna.wordpress.com/2016/02/05/the-moral-animal-by-robert-wright-1994/

Did you read Superforcasting by him?  Thought it looked interesting, wanted to see which is better from someone who read both.

2Ege Erdil
I haven't read Superforecasting but second-hand information tells me that Expert Political Judgment is his best book for those with a technical background. If you don't have such a background, Superforecasting might be the better read for you.

To increase, focus/energy, try fasting.  Skip breakfast, lunch, or both of them.  At dinner, experiment with which foods put you into a food coma. 

What's a curation notice?

2Raemon
It's a comment indicating that a moderator has curated something: https://www.lesswrong.com/posts/HvcZmKS43SLCbJvRb/theses-on-sleep?commentId=hMvSncYmxMukMJm4s 

Thanks, should be working now.

Torello10

Yes, you've hit on the main point. Survival (and later on, reproductive value) is what matters. The fact that the maps help them survive is what matters. The existence of the map or its accuracy matters only matters in so far as it contributes to reproductive success.

Natural selection doesn't "reward" them for having an accurate map, only a map that helps they live and reproduce.

0Wes_W
Yes...? And one of the key traits of a useful map is accuracy. I mean, yes, clearly natural selection doesn't value truth for its own sake. It certainly does favor truth for instrumental reasons. I'm uncomfortable phrasing this as "indifferent to truth" as the original quote did. But perhaps we're talking past each other, here.
Torello00

I agree that "limited" is a better word than "horrible".

What I meant by "horrible" is that, relative to human maps, ant maps are extremely limited; they do not represent "truth" or reality as well to the same scope or accuracy of human maps.

I think the point is that even though ant maps are limited, they can still be adaptive. Natural selection is indifferent to the scope/accuracy of a map in and of itself.

1Wes_W
Critically, the areas in which ant maps are limited are the areas in which natural selection doesn't kill them for it. Colonies that think food is in places where food isn't starve to death.
Torello00

Because the truth, even in small matters like snake coloration, can make a difference, the original quotation is an overstatement.

All natural selection "cares about" is genes copied. Claws, peacock tail feathers, and "maps" can all "make a difference," but natural selection only acts on the results (genes copied); natural selection itself doesn't favor any particular kind of adaptation, that's why I think the original quote is not an overstatement.

Torello-10

If your map significantly doesn't match the territory, natural selection is likely to be brutal to you.

Another way to think about his idea:

Natural selection is equally brutal to all life. Moss and ants have horrible maps, but they are still successful in terms of natural selection.

2Lumifer
That's not self-evident to me. They certainly have very limited maps, but I don't know if these limited maps are bad.
Torello00

If, magically, you get a choice between getting a more accurate map or a less accurate map, you should always choose the more accurate map.

I think that point he's trying to make is that natural selection doesn't magically get a choice between maps. In general, a more accurate map will only become available to the mind of some creature if it happens to be adaptive for genes in a particular population in a particular environment.

Think of all the creatures with really bad maps. In terms of reproduction, they are doing just fine. For some species, their ... (read more)

Torello00

He's using "indifferent" metaphorically. He would completely agree that natural selection has no mind.

What he means is that natural selection operates on differential rates of reproduction of genes, not on the accuracy/truth of the beliefs that the mind of an individual holds.

Torello20

Maybe I should have included the whole paragraph:

"And even when "truth" can be clearly defined, it is a concept to which natural selection is indifferent. To be sure, if an accurate portrayal of reality, to oneself or to others can help spread one's genes, then accuracy of perception or communication may evolve. And often this will be the case (when, say, you remember where food is stored, and share the data with offspring or siblings). But when accurate reporting and genetic interest do thus intersect, that's just a happy coincidence. T... (read more)

3dspeyer
This seems to be conflating possessing truth and sharing truth. The former is almost always valuable. The latter is an interesting bit of game theory, that can go either way. As it has been said, truth may be spoken as events dictate, but should be heard on every occasion.
027chaos
The idea that it is just "a happy coincidence" makes me think Lumifer's criticism still applies.
1Lumifer
Partially that, but also partially about the direction of the gradient. First, maps never match the territory perfectly precisely, they are always simplified models. In that sense, of course, a map not "matching" the territory is not a obstacle to surviving and prospering. However I would claim that the greater the mismatch between the map and the territory, the greater disadvantage in the natural selection game does the creature accrue. If, magically, you get a choice between getting a more accurate map or a less accurate map, you should always choose the more accurate map. That is not true -- you set up the question wrong. There are three maps involved: map 1 does not recognize venomous snakes at all; map 2 confuses venomous and mimicry-using snakes; and map 3 successfully distinguishes between venomous snakes and mimicry-using ones. Map 3 matches the territory better than map 2 which matches the territory better than map 1. The natural selection would give advantage to an animal with map 3 over the one with map 2, and the one with map 2 over the one with map 1.
0fortyeridania
This additional context does help; thanks. Yes, this could be adaptive, but not costless. An animal that avoids all snakes that look venomous misses out on some opportunities (e.g., foraging for food in a tree occupied by a harmless but dangerous-seeming snake). The opportunity cost, in reproductive terms, might be negligible, or it might matter, depending on the specifics. (Here I'm agreeing with you when you point to the importance of the term "significantly.") Because the truth, even in small matters like snake coloration, can make a difference, the original quotation is an overstatement.
Torello10

Your discussion of failure modes at the bottom of this comment is excellent.

Do you have any recommend books or articles on the topic?

Has there already been a post about these failure modes on the main page? If not, please expand this into a main post.

Too all other readers, please feel free to share books or articles on the topic.

0Gram_Stone
Thanks, Torello. Like many good things, they're really short and sweet summaries of things that Eliezer and others have been saying for years. The list is by no means exhaustive. I'm not very far into the Sequences, and this is just what I've pieced together, so someone else would probably be able to point you to relevant LW posts. I know far less than I appear to know. I haven't read it, but my guess is that Gary Drescher's Good and Real: Demystifying Paradoxes from Physics to Ethics would be what you're looking for. I know for a fact that it explains why no absolute morality != moral relativism or moral nihilism, and why determinism != fatalism. As for the second, from what I understand, reductionism is the key to solving most of our Old Hard Unsolved Problems, so he'll talk about that, but I don't know if he'll talk about people weirdly losing all hope when they see that reductionism is the way to go. I don't know about the fourth item, but I don't see Drescher successfully avoiding it. The fifth item in the list probably did not merit discussion in Drescher's book. I don't think it merits its own post, even in discussion. It's not really novel here, except perhaps in presentation.
Torello00

I think she means urgency from the perspective of the general population; many people are at risk if a growing number of people stop getting vaccines.

I think members of the organic food movement feel that their cause is urgent, but members of the general population are not put in danger by their decision to eat organic food and therefore don't have urgent feelings about it.

Torello340

[Charles] Darwin wrote in his autobiography of a habit he called a "golden rule": to immediately write down any observation that seemed inconsistent with his theories--"for I had found by experience that such facts and thoughts were far more apt to escape from the memory than favorable ones."

-Robert Wright, The Moral Animal, p.280

Torello-10

And even when "truth" can be clearly defined, it is a concept to which natural selection is indifferent.

-Robert Wright, The Moral Animal, p. 272

4Lumifer
This seems to be just wrong. If your map significantly doesn't match the territory, natural selection is likely to be brutal to you.
Torello10

There are drugs for alcoholics that make you sick if you drink, so it makes you feel miserable short-run but may help you to be stable/functional/productive long run.

Torello20

Keep lot of slips of paper on a clipboard next to the bed. Give each idea its own slip (so they can easily be sorted later). Lay down on the bed 25 minutes early, which will give you time for the thoughts to arise, then you'll get your full sleep time.

Torello10

Not to derail the post, but I saw on your blog you had IQ testing done. I just had it done, about to get the results.

Do you have any recommendations for resources that will help me make sense of the results? My motivation in taking the test was to see what types of problems/domains I might be good at (relative to my own performance in other domains).

0gwern
Have you read through the Wikipedia articles? Often a good starting point. I can't really recommend any resources - curse of expertise at this point.
Torello10

The links were broken for me.

I picking up my kit from the post office tomorrow. I'm also gifting all four grandparents with kits for Christmas. I would be very interested to hear what you plan to do with your data.

Look at this site:

http://www.23andyou.com/3rdparty

I haven't looked at it closely yet, but it may prove valuable. I would love to hear suggestions from other people on the site about what I should do with my data, especially given that all my grandparents will do it, which is probably very rare at this point in history.

Torello00

I agree that small physical differences can be very consequential--wouldn't small mental differences be similarly consequential?

http://www.radiolab.org/story/91618-lying-to-ourselves/

This radiolab episode discusses how swimmers who engage in more self-deception win more frequently, controlling for other factors (i.e., self-deceivers on a division 3, 2, and 1 teams are more likely to beat their opponents, so at different levels of physical skill their mentality is predictive).

We are talking about very small margins of victory in many (or most) cases

... (read more)
0Brillyant
Great points. In Phelps' case, I think he is physically superior—though perhaps only slightly—compared to the competition. Same with Usain Bolt. I'd agree confidence, even to the extent it is self-deception, can make a significant difference when it comes to sports performance. However, when an athlete—like Phelps or Bolt—routinely wins over the course of several races spanning years, I think physical capability differences are the main reason. In team sports, or really any sport that requires more than just straight line speed, I think psychological difference are very important. But swimming and sprinting are largely physical contests. Unless you have problems with false starts, I'm not seeing where the mental edge figures in. (Obviously longer races that require endurance and pacing considerations are more prone to psychological influence.)
Torello00

Thanks for your reply.

Can you point me to any articles/sites about biofeedback devices? Have you done biofeedback yourself?

Perhaps you're right about the bomb squad heart rate, maybe a moderately raised rate would be a proxy for optimal/peak arousal levels. However, I'd guess that a little too much calm is better than overwhelming panic, which would probably be a more typical reaction to approaching a bomb that's about to explode.

I agree that a coach would be better, but a book is a more practical option at the moment.

(this may sound snarky, but i... (read more)

2ChristianKl
Yes, and people at LW are in generally very bad at simple. People here have the skills for dealing with complex intellectual subjects. The problem with "be still" is that it leaves you with question like: "4 minutes in the meditation I feel the desire to adjust my position, what do I do?" It doesn't give you a easy criteria to decide when moving to change your position violates "be still" and when it doesn't. Doing biofeedback is still on my todo list. My device knowledge might be 1-2 years out of date. Before that point the situation was that emWave2 and wilddivine were the good non-EGG based solutions. Good EGG based solutions are more expensive. See also a QS-forum article on neurofeedback. Even through the QS forum is very low in terms of posts, posting a question there on topics like this is still a good idea (Bias disclosure: I'm a mod at the QS-Forum). Among those two emWave2 basically only goes over heart rate variance (HRV) and WildDevine also measures skin conductance level (SCL) with is a proxy for the amount that you sweat. WildDevine also has a patent for doing biofeedback with HRV + SCL. emWave2 is with 149$ at the moment AFAIK the cheapest choice for a good device that comes with a good explanation of how to do training with it and that you can just use as is. I started with learning meditation from a book by Aikido master Koichi Tohei ten years ago. I have roughly three years of in person training. I also have NLP/Hypnosis training since that time. If I would switch out an emotional response of the bomb swat, then hypnosis is probably the tool of choice. With biofeedback I would see no reason for overcompensation. Switching out an emotional response via hypnosis on the other hand can lead to such effects. Hearing an alarm of an ambulance might also lower my heart rate ;) There are also safety issues. I don't like the idea of people messing themselves up and are faced with experiences that they can't handle because they don't have proper supervi
Torello60

This is not exactly a reply to your question, but I think your question is fits this dynamic:

Miller's Iron Law of Iniquity

In principle, there is an evolutionary trade-off between any two positive traits. But in practice, every good trait correlates positively with every other good trait.

http://edge.org/response-detail/11314

Torello40

TLDR: Requesting articles/papers/books that feature detailed/explicit "how-to" sections for bio-feedback/visualization/mental training for improving performance (mostly mental, but perhaps cognitive as well)

Years ago I saw an interview with Michael Phelps' (Olympic swimmer) coach in which he claims that most Olympic-finalist caliber swimmers have nearly indistinguishable physical capabilities, Phelps' ability to focus and visualize success is what set him apart.

I also saw a program about free divers (staying underwater for minutes) who slow ... (read more)

3Brillyant
I'm skeptical of this. No doubt it is relatively true that professional/elite athletes have similar physical capabilities, but even very small differences in athletic ability can be very consequential over the course of XXX meters in a swimming race or, say an entire season of football. We are talking about very small margins of victory in many (or most) cases.
1ChristianKl
The first step of how to of biofeedback means getting a biofeedback device. Direct heart rate is no good goal. Doing biofeedback on heart rate variance is better. I'm not sure whether you want a bomb squad to have a heart rate that's lower than normal. Step-by-step instructions are not how you achieve the kind of results of Phelps or the bomb squat. Both are done through the guidance of coaches. To the extend that the main way I meditate has steps it has three: 1. Listen to the silence 2. Be still 3. Close your eyes. Among those (3) is obvious in meaning. (1) takes getting used to and is probably not accessible by mere reading. Understanding the meaning of (2) takes months.
4Sjcs
The book On Combat by Dave Grossman discusses some of these things. I haven't read it yet, but have read reviews and listened to a podcast by two people I consider highly evidence-based and reputable (here). In particular, the book discusses a method of physiologically lowering your heart rate he calls "Combat Breathing". This entails 4 phases, each for the durations of a count of 4 (no unit specified, I do approx 4 seconds): 1. Breathe in 2. Hold in 3. Breathe out 4. Hold out It sounds very simple, but I have heard multiple recommendations of it from both the armed-forces and medical worlds. I can also add a data point confirming it works well for me (mostly only for reducing heart rate to below 100, not all the way down to resting rate).
Torello00

Rich people treat the space stations as cabins.

Alternately, artist colony for the next generation of super-wealthy artists like Damien Hearst (spelling?) need to go for "artistic inspiration" (scare quotes due to Hansonian signling).

5gwern
That's actually pretty plausible, given the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overview_effect http://www.fastcoexist.com/3036887/out-of-this-world-the-mysterious-mental-side-effects-of-traveling-into-space
0[anonymous]
I know whenever I don't need the second monitor at my desk at work or are at the lab bench next to said desk, I always put the perpetual ISS livestream on...
Torello40

I read GTD about four months ago and have started using it at work. It's made an incredible difference by 1) reducing the instances I feel overwhelmed or confused about what to do 2) helping me to better track my primary projects 3) helping me not to forget about small projects or put off the steps to getting them started 4) the system reminds me of what I'm waiting for other people to do, which I never tracked efficiently before.

Torello10

I second Checklist Manifesto due to content.

I second Gang Leader not only for interesting content, but because I found the voice acting to add to the content (I sometimes give up on interesting content because I can't stand the voice acting)

Torello290

"While there are problems with what I have proposed, they should be compared to the existing alternatives, not to abstract utopias."

Jaron Lanier, Who Owns the Future (page number not provided by e-reader)

-3[anonymous]
That's just an argument for letting the status quo impose the Anchoring Effect on us.
5cousin_it
Huh? It would be more fair to compare proposals to other proposals, and existing things to other existing things.
Torello40

"Information always underrepresents reality."

Jaron Lanier, Who Owns the Future? (page number not provided by e-reader)

6[anonymous]
What does this mean?
Torello180

"Put simply, the truth about all those good decisions you plan to make sometime in the future, when things are easier, is that you probably won't make them once that future rolls around and things are tough again."

Sendhil Mullaainathan and Eldar Shafir, Scarcity, p. 215

Torello00

Thanks for your reply.

Do you think it would be fair to say that for rare diseases (that are not determined by single loci mutations, like Huntington's or BRCA, as you described) it's silly to get a test because a small movement in your risk profile is meaningless in that it wouldn't impact your treatment or behavior in a meaningful way?

Could you explain what you mean by:

Either way, it is a big chunk of likely mortality

Do you work in a related field? You explained this rather concisely, thanks.

0Douglas_Knight
Whether they are about rare diseases or common diseases, almost all results that you get out of 23andMe are silly because they don't have rational effects on potential behavior. (They may have irrational effects - if you can use it motivate actions that you ought to be doing anyway, that's great. But there are also bad irrational reactions.) Depending on your genetics, your chance of dying of heart disease might be as low as 30% or as high as 70%. (I made up those numbers; I suspect the real range evaluable with current genetics is much narrower.) Even the low number, 30% is very high. If you have a 30% of dying of something, you should think about it and react to it. Even in the best case, you still have to think about heart disease.
Torello10

From an article I'm reading:

"For example, the life-time risk for an individual in the United States to develop Crohn’s disease is about 1/1000. How helpful is it for clinicians and patients if that risk shifts to 1/500 or 1/2000?"

It may be hard to tell without the context, but they are suggesting that these revised risk assessments would not be useful. My initial thought is: "If having an estimate is helpful, having a more accurate estimate would be better, and there seems to be a big difference between 1/500 and 1/1000.

Any thought... (read more)

1Douglas_Knight
There are common diseases you should worry about and rare diseases you shouldn't worry about. A factor of 2 does not move Crohn's from rare to common. The difference between a 70% chance of dying of heart disease and a 30% chance sounds pretty big, but what would you do differently? Either way, it is a big chunk of likely mortality. A factor of 2 is unlikely to change the cost-benefit analysis of actions that might protect you from heart disease. If such an action is useful, it is useful for most people. Some rare genes do move diseases from rare to common. A broken BRCA (1 in 10k) moves a woman from a 10% chance of dying of breast cancer to an 80% chance of dying of breast cancer, and dying at a young age. Mammograms are valuable for the second woman and not for the first. Some women have prophylactic mastectomies. But if you ask Myriad to test your BRCA, in addition to this useful information, it will also talk about minor variations with useless effects on the risk.
Torello30

Interesting post!

Another reason to be charitable: these "poor advocates", by virtue of being marginalized/unpopular/cranks may have fewer disincentives to say "the emperor has no clothes", because their standing is already low. Once they put an idea out there, it may gain traction with a greater chunk of the population. Unfortunately, this dynamic leads to "autism is caused by vaccines" movements too.

If you're interested in the topic I highly recommend this BloggingHeads episode: http://bloggingheads.tv/videos/30467 spe... (read more)

Torello40

Definitely read The Paradox of Choice by Barry Schwartz, or watch him speak about the book (the book is better than the talks).

Basic concepts he shares:

-reduce the number of options (only seriously consider two options for your custom suit, not four)

-"satisfice" which means saying "I don't need the best, I need something that is good enough."

-limit the number of decisions where you can change your mind. "I only get one decision where I can reconsider today."

-make blanket rules that prevent you from having to make decisions "I can never cheat on my partner, so I don't even need to agonize over every opportunity to cheat that arises."

Torello180

Not really what you're looking for, but I feel obligated:

Move or get a different job. Reduce your commute by 1 or 1.5 hours. This is the best way to increase the productivity of your commute.

I read (can't remember source) that commuting was the worst part of the people's day (they were unhappy, or experienced the lowest levels of their self-assess subjective well being).

5Douglas_Knight
Commuting by car is terrible. Commuting by foot is great. There is not a lot of data on commuting by subway, but it does not look good.
8Adam Zerner
I'm doing a coding bootcamp (Fullstack Academy). It's in NYC and I live with my parents in Long Island now. It's only 13 weeks so it's not that bad, especially if I could make it productive. If it was long term I'd probably agree with you though.
Torello110

Having a work ethic might help you accomplish more things than you would without one.

It's a good reputation boost. "A highly-skilled, hard-working x" might be more flattering than "a highly skilled x."

Work ethic might be a signal/facet of conscientiousness, a desirable trait in many domains.

3Ixiel
That makes sense; I hadn't thought of that. Thanks. Perhaps there would be a required critical mass of people to accept laziness as a virtue before it becomes "this good or that good" rather than "this good or lack of this good."
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