All of toto's Comments + Replies

toto
20

One piece of evidence for the second is to notice how nations with small populations tend to cluster near the top of lists of countries by per-capita-GDP.

1) So do nations with very high taxes, i.e. Nordic countries (or most of Western Europe for that matter).

One of the outliers (Ireland) has probably been knocked down a few places recently, as a result of a worldwide crisis that might well be the result of excessive deregulation.

2) In very small countries, one single insanely rich individual will make a lot of difference to average wealth, even if the ... (read more)

toto
00

This seems to be the premise of Isaac Asimov's "Nightfall".

toto
00

OK. I assume the usual (Omega and Upsilon are both reliable and sincere, I can reliably distinguish one from the other, etc.)

Then I can't see how the game doesn't reduce to standard Newcomb, modulo a simple probability calculation, mostly based on "when I encounter one of them, what's my probability of meeting the other during my lifetime?" (plus various "actuarial" calculations).

If I have no information about the probability of encountering either, then my decision may be incorrect - but there's nothing paradoxical or surprising about ... (read more)

0cousin_it
Yes, this is a standard incomplete information problem. Yes, you can do the calculations at any convenient time, not necessarily before meeting Omega. (These calculations can't use the information that Omega exists, though.) No, it isn't quite as simple as you state: when you meet Omega, you have to calculate the counterfactual probability of you having met Upsilon instead, and so on.
toto
10

I have problems with the "Giant look-up table" post.

"The problem isn't the levers," replies the functionalist, "the problem is that a GLUT has the wrong pattern of levers. You need levers that implement things like, say, formation of beliefs about beliefs, or self-modeling... Heck, you need the ability to write things to memory just so that time can pass for the computation. Unless you think it's possible to program a conscious being in Haskell."

If the GLUT is indeed behaving like a human, then it will need some so... (read more)

0Houshalter
Memmory is input to. The "GLUT" is just fed all of the things its seen so far back in as input along with the current state of its external enviroment. A copy is made and then added to the rest of the memmory and the next cycle its fed in again with the next new state. This is basically just the Chinese room argument. There is a room in China. Someone slips a few symbols underneath the door every so often. The symbols are given to a computer with artificial intelligence which then makes an appropriate response and slips it back through the door. Does the computer actually understand Chinese? Well what if a human did exactly the same process the computer did, manually? However, the operator only speaks English. No matter how long he does it he will never truly understand Chinese - even if he memorizes the entire process and does it in his head. So how could the computer "understand"?
toto
70

When it comes to proving such obvious things, one will invariably fail to convince.

Montesquieu, "The Spirit of the Laws", book XXV, chapter XIII. (Link to the book, Original French)

toto
90

I don't know, to me he's just stating that the brain is the seat of sensation and reasoning.

Aristotle thought it was the heart. Both had arguments for their respective positions. Aristotle studied animals a lot and over-interpreted the evidence he had accumulated: to the naked eye the brain appears bloodless and unconnected to the organs; it is also insensitive, and can sustain some non-fatal damage; the heart, by contrast, reacts to emotions, is obviously connected to the entire body (through the circulatory system), and any damage to it leads to immedi... (read more)

toto
30

Yes, yes he did, time and again (substituting "copy" for "zombie", as MP points out below). That's the Star Trek paradox.

Imagine that there is a glitch in the system, so that the "original" Kirk fails to dematerialise when the "new" one appears, so we find ourselves with two copies of Kirk. Now Scotty says "Sowwy Captain" and zaps the "old" Kirk into a cloud of atoms. How in the world does that not constitute murder?

That was not the paradox. The "paradox" is this: the only difference bet... (read more)

1khafra
If Kirk1 disappears a few seconds before Kirk2 appears, we assume that no subjective experience was lost; a branch of length 0 was terminated. If the transporter had predictive algorithms good enough to put Kirk2 into the exact same state that Kirk1 would be in a few seconds later, then painlessly dematerialized Kirk1, I would have no more problem with it than I do with the original Star Trek transporter.
9wedrifid
And here is something that bugs me in Sci. Fi. shows. It's worse than 'Sound in space? Dammit!" Take Carter from Stargate. She has Asgard beaming technology and the Asgard core (computer). She can use this to create food, a Chelo for herself and Tritonin for Teal'c. The core function of the device is to take humanoid creatures and re-materialise them somewhere else. Why oh why do they not leave the originals behind and create a 50-Carter strong research team, a million strong Teal'c army and an entire wizard's circle of Daniel Jacksons with whatever his mind-power of the episode happens to be? There are dozens of ways to clone SG1. The robot-SGI is the mundane example. The Stargates themselves have the capability and so do Wraith darts. The same applies to Kirk and his crew. But no. let's just ignore the most obvious use of the core technology.
wedrifid
150

But when Kirk1 disappears a few seconds after Kirk2 appears, all of a sudden we see the act for what it is, namely murder.

I'm not comfortable with 'for what it is, namely'. I would be comfortable with 'see the act as murder'. I don't play 'moral reference class tennis'. Killing a foetus before it is born is killing a foetus before it is born (or abortion). Creating a copy then removing the original is creating a copy and then removing the original (or teleportation). Killing someone who wants to die is killing someone who wants to die (or euthanasia). C... (read more)

Morendil
120

How in the world does that not constitute murder?

Any plans Kirk had prior to his "original" being dematerialized are still equally likely to be carried out by the "copy" Kirk, any preferences he had will still be defended, and so on. Nothing of consequence seems to have been lost; an observer unaware of this little drama will notice nothing different from what he would have predicted, had Kirk traveled by more conventional means.

To say that a murder has been committed seems like a strained interpretation of the facts. There's a diffe... (read more)

toto
200

People who as their first reaction start pulling excuses why this must be wrong out >of their asses get big negative points on this rationality test.

Well, if people are absolutely, definitely rejecting the possibility that this might ever be true, without looking at the data, then they are indeed probably professing a tribal belief.

However, if they are merely describing reasons why they find this result "unlikely", then I'm not sure there's anything wrong with that. They're simply expressing that their prior for "Communist economies di... (read more)

0[anonymous]
Yes - The original post wasn't about using someone's judgement on an issue as a litmus test. It was about the peculiar fact that you can use someone's judgement on an issue as a test of their rationality without knowing anything about the issue, if they're expressing a non-tribal opinion.
toto
200

Behind a paywall

But freely available from one of the authors' website.

Basically, pigeons also start with a slight bias towards keeping their initial choice. However, they find it much easier to "learn to switch" than humans, even when humans are faced with a learning environment as similar as possible to that of pigeons (neutral descriptions, etc.). Not sure how interesting that is.

toto
10

Frequentists (or just about anybody involved in experimental work) report p-values, which are their main quantitative measure of evidence.

6JGWeissman
Evidence, as measured in log odds, has the nice property that evidence from independent sources can be combined by adding. Is there any way at all to combine p-values from independent sources? As I understand them, p-values are used to make a single binary decision to declare a theory supported or not, not to track cumulative strength of belief in a theory. They are not a measure of evidence.
toto
30

(which would require us to know P(H), P(E|H), and P(E|~H))

Is that not precisely the problem? Often, the H you are interested in is so vague ("there is some kind of effect in a certain direction") that it is very difficult to estimate P(E / H) - or even to define it.

OTOH, P(E / ~H) is often very easy to compute from first principles, or to obtain through experiments (since conditions where "the effect" is not present are usually the most common).

Example: I have a coin. I want to know if it is "true" or "biased". I ... (read more)

7komponisto
There needs to be a post specifically devoted to arguments of the form "It's okay to do things wrong, because doing them right would be hard". I've seen this so many times, in so many places, in so many subjects, that I have to conclude that people just don't see what is wrong with it. (No, I'm not talking about making simplifying assumptions or idealizations in models. More like presenting a collection of sometimes-useful ad-hoc tricks as a competing theory, which is then argued for as a theory against its competitors on the basis of its being "easier to apply".) Bayes' Theorem says that P(H|E) = P(H)P(E|H)/P(E). That's, like, the law. You don't get to take P(E|H) out of the equation, or pretend it isn't there, just because it's difficult to estimate. As I've said elsewhere, if you have a belief, then you've done a Bayesian update -- which means you have some assumption about each of those quantities appearing in the formula, whether you choose to confront these assumptions or not. As a matter of fact, if you find P(E|H) overly difficult to estimate, that means your H isn't paying its rent.
toto
50

I dispute none of this, but so far as I can tell or guess, the main thing powering the superior statistical strength of PatientsLikeMe is the fact that medical researchers have learned to game the system and use complicated ad-hoc frequentist statistics to get whatever answer they want or think they ought to get, and PatientsLikeMe has some standard statistical techniques that they use every time.

1) I'd like to see independent evidence of their "superior statistical strength".

2) On the face of it, the main difference between these guys and a p... (read more)

0conchis
Isn't the main difference just that they have a bigger sample. (e.g. "4x" in the hardcore group).
toto
20

But believers in the Bible really do reject the Koran, and believers in the Koran reject (the extant versions of) the Bible (which they claim are corrupted, as can be "proved" by noticing that they disagree with the Koran). Whereas in the vegetarianism examples, there is no mutual rejection, just people who emphasise a particular point while also accepting others. Many of the people who go veggie to prevent animal suffering would also agree that it causes environmental damage. It's just that their own emotional hierarchy places animal suffering above environmental damage, not a real disagreement about the state of the world (same map of the territory, different preferred locations).

toto
10

Hmm, the AI could have said that if you are the original, then by the time you make the decision it will have already either tortured or not tortured your copies based on its simulation of you, so hitting the reset button won't prevent that.

Nothing can prevent something that has already happened. On the other hand, pressing the reset button will prevent the AI from ever doing this in the future. Consider that if it has done something that cruel once, it might do it again many times in the future.

3wedrifid
I believe Wei_Dai one boxes on Newcomb's problem. In fact, he has his very own brand of decision theory which is 'updateless' with respect to this kind of temporal information.
toto
50

1- I can't remember anybody stating that "global warming has a serious chance of destroying the world". The world is a pretty big ball of iron. I doubt even a 10K warming would have much of an impact on it, and I don't think anybody said it would - not even Al Gore.

2- I can remember many people saying that "man-made global warming has a serious chance of causing large disruption and suffering to extant human societies", or something to that effect.

3- If I try to apply "reference class forecasting" to this subject, my suggest... (read more)

1knb
Well, I do recall a scientist using explicit "save the word"/"destroy the world" rhetoric. Of course this was rhetoric, not a scientific claim. A lot of non-scientist environmentalists do seem to think that global warming threatens the whole biosphere, though that seems very implausible based on what I know.
toto
00

IIRC Jensen's original argument was based on very high estimates for IQ heritability (>.8). When within-group heritability is so high, a simple statistical argument makes it very likely that large between-group differences contain at least a genetic component. The only alternative would be that some unknown environmental factor would depress all blacks equally (a varying effect would reduce within-group heritability), which is not very plausible.

Now that estimates of IQ heritability have been revised down to .5, the argument loses much of its power.

0[anonymous]
The Dickens-Flynn model, with high gene-environment correlations (the effects of genetic differences seem large because those genetic differences lead to assortment into different environments, but broad environmental change can still have major effects, as in the Flynn Effect) seems a very powerful indicator that environmental explanations are possible.
1Pablo
Bouchard's recent meta-analysis upholds such high estimates, at least for adulthood. These are the figures listed on Table 1 (p. 150):
toto
160

Or, if the reference class is "science-y Doomsday predictors", then they're almost certainly completely wrong. See Paul Ehrlich (overpopulation), and Matt Simmons (peak oil) for some examples, both treated extremely seriously by mainstream media at time.

I think you are unduly confusing mainstream media with mainstream science. Most people do. Unless they're the actual scientists having their claims deformed, misrepresented, and sensationalised by the media.

This says it all.

When has there been a consensus in the established scientific literature a... (read more)

toto
40

I guess I'm missing something obvious. The problem seems very simple, even for an AI.

The way the problem is usually defined (omega really is omniscient, he's not fooling you around, etc.) there are only two solutions:

  • You take the two boxes, and Omega had already predicted that, meaning that there is nothing in Box B - you win 1000$

  • You take box B only, and Omega had already predicted that, meaning that there is 1M$ in box B - you win 1M$.

That's it. Period. Nothing else. Nada. Rien. Nichts. Sod all. These are the only two possible options (again, ass... (read more)