All of TuviaDulin's Comments + Replies

Didn't Harry JUST learn a lesson about not keeping secrets and assuming he's smarter than the rest of the world put together?

3ShardPhoenix
Problem is parts of his agenda (eg keeping Voldemort alive in transfigured form) don't line up with the likely agenda of the others.
Astazha
100

I was thinking the same thing. If I were Harry I would call Moody and McGonagall to the headmistress' office and spill everything. As a side-note, I think Moody would rather appreciate Voldemort being taken down by stuporfy.

3DanielLC
I assumed he was just trying to keep it a secret from the masses. I don't know if he planned on telling the people who'd realize that what actually happens wouldn't be such a big spectacle, but I figured he at least accounted for the fact that they'd realize it.
kilobug
170

Well, he also learned a lesson about not keeping secrets, in the way he told to Voldemort about the Deathly Hallows.

Pretty sure the Atlantians created the Source. There's probably a dyson sphere in our star cluster providing all the power needed for magic.

0TobyBartels
If so, then it's too bad that the Pioneer Horcrux didn't manage to make it outside of that sphere before now. Voldemort might have been in for a terrible shock if it had suddenly stopped working!

Safest option would have been the dementor's kiss. Or, if the kiss isn't a thing in MoRverse, tossing his wand to them as Harry had mused.

Looks like I had the right idea after all. I think strands of strong acid or a highly reactive alkaline metal would have been a safer tactic than the nano-wire garrotes, since Harry wouldn't need to spend the extra action to constrict, but apparently Eliezer had this planned out from chapter one and it was too late to change it (due to the silver line, black robes, etc).

What came after, though? Not quite as convincing for me. I can't believe that Harry was able to transfigure Voldemort despite the resonance cascade. I also am skeptical that Voldemort didn'... (read more)

4Bound_up
I believe the resonance from transfiguration is shown to be very minor, for whatever reason. When Harry has to transfigure Voldemort himself, not just contact him with transfigured material, it is only mildly uncomfortable. It is not incomprehensible that a much, much lesser contact could escape any notice at all until at very close range.
2hairyfigment
The resonance appears much stronger when he Obliviates the Dark Lord Tom than later during the Transfiguration. Of course the former could just be stronger magic, but I assumed the alteration to V had reduced it (and thus he couldn't have started with the Transfiguration in the hope of getting a more experience entity to do the mind-alteration later). This would support the theory that V updated his old Horcruxes somehow, or just didn't connect them to the network. (There could still be variant Tom Riddles coming some years later!)

Also,question. Do our suggestions need to be posted on fanfiction.net, or does this thread count?

4Astazha
fanfiction.net

It wouldn't be a projectile. It would be transfiguring part of the enemy INTO acid or some other deadly substance by including a bit of their body inside of Harry's conceptual "object."

Wouldn't you need partial transfiguration to make the spike out of a piece of earth?

Regardless, that's not what I'm proposing that Harry should do. I'm saying he should use partial transfiguration to make acid or cesium threads through the air that include the death eaters and Voldemort's handgun in the transfigured material. That has never been done before, and its likely there won't be defenses against it.

5skeptical_lurker
No, I mean you transfigure something else into a spike, and the transfiguration pushes the material through the ground. Sheilds stop projectile weaponry (up to a point) and I'm not sure this is any different.

Interesting analysis. I'd agree, except that we just learned that Harry got a big chunk of Voldemort's personality downloaded into him as a baby, and Voldemort is a narcissistic, amoral, manipulative trainwreck of a human being. Petunia might have played a role, but I think the author's intent is that these are Voldemort's traits making themselves known.

One wonders, though, if perhaps Tom Riddle had a narcissistic caretaker in the orphanage that raised him. Unlike canon!Riddle, the MoR version doesn't seem to have been born a sociopath, but rather made one.

Would would Harry not transfigure it from the ground? Or the air from that matter? What else does he have to work with?

And he'd be transfiguring part of their bodies too.

Wouldn't work on Voldie due to resonance cascade, but he could disable the uzi.

5skeptical_lurker
I mean that transfigureing a steel spike through the ground is doable without partial transfigureation, so it would have been tried before and would be used as a battle tactic already if it worked.

Best answers I've heard or devised so far:

  1. Leonhart's suggestion below. Probably the best rhetorical move Harry could possibly make.

  2. Harry's portkey is transfigured into a tiny chip implanted under his own skin. It would be totally in character for him to do that.

  3. If he has the range, transfigure long, thin tendrils that overlap with Voldemort and the death eaters' spinal cords at the neck level. Thin so that he doesn't have to work with as much mass/volume.

  4. Transfigure the air around him into a carbon nanotube shell, buying himself time for another spell.

No one has been able to transfigure a piece of the air or ground before, as far as anyone knows, so the shields might not be designed to block that.

Transfigured tendrils that intersect all the bad guys' spinal cords at the neck level would do the trick. Only question is if Harry has the range to do that.

5skeptical_lurker
No, I mean transfigure a steel spike that pierces through the ground, without actually being transfigured from the ground.

Regardless, there is a good reason for the plural pronoun.

If he wants Harry to destroy the current universe and create a new one in its place, encouraging cynicism with the current world would make sense.

It was because his father was raped? I thought Tom's sociopathy was just a random result of generations of incest on his mother's side.

Calling it. Voldemort is a well-intentioned extremist who did everything that he's done for the sake of bringing a being like Harry into the world so that he can remake it into a paradise.

7gjm
I think MoR!Voldemort is probably better-intentioned than canon!Voldemort (not that that would be hard; the latter is a cardboard-cutout evil-for-its-own-sake villain) but I don't think well-intentioned people who want to make the world a paradise act like MoR!Voldemort seems to have acted. (Unless, perhaps, that were truly the only way to bring about the good outcome, but really, how credible is that?)

But that requires more than 3 things to happen.

6Velorien
Assuming Quirrell is Voldemort, this is badly at odds with what appear to be his constant attempts to encourage greater cynicism in Harry, to the point of taking away the people who serve as his anchors to the rest of humanity. Even forgetting his attempts to shape Harry into a copy of his pessimistic self, his behaviour over the course of the story simply does not match that of a person who believes that paradise is possible.

What I'm surprised Harry didn't think of was bringing her to a muggle hospital. A combination of muggle and wizard medicine should be able to overcome some plain old shock and blood loss, no?

4RolfAndreassen
Time. The sort of massive blood loss you get from having both legs traumatically amputated high on the thighs is deadly within minutes, at the absolute most. How does Harry get her to an ER in that time? Not to mention mobilising paramedics and whatnot from their rest state to the sort of instant correct action that would be needed. Modern medicine has its limits; the wounds described for Hermione seem to me to exceed them. Really, calling Dumbledore is much more inherent - he is an experienced combatant with access to isntant transport and no need to get things from a cabinet.
CAE_Jones
110

In canon, after several failed attempts at using magical treatments, Arthur Weasely tried stitches on his Nagini bite, but the venom dissolved them. It wouldn't be surprising if the troll's bite, either naturally or due to the mastermind's buffings, would have similar properties interfering with muggle treatments. Actually, now that I think about it, that's not a bad explanation for why Harry's first aid attempt didn't work. Canon Voldemort does not like making a kill strike that can be easily treated (Rowling even intended for Arthur's bite to be fatal, a... (read more)

I just read this article instead of doing my homework.

Convincing people that intelligence explosion is a bad idea might discourage them from unleashing one. No violence there.

1MugaSofer
Judging by the fact that I think it would never work, you're not persuasive enough for that to work.

Conclusion: intelligence explosion might not be a good idea.

0MugaSofer
And how would you suggest preventing intelligence explosions? It seems more effective to try and make sure it's a Friendly one. Then we at least have a shot at Eutopia, instead of hiding in a bunker until someone's paperclipper gets loose and turns us into grey goo. Incidentally, If you plan on answering my (rhetorical) question, I should note that LW has a policy against advocating violence against identifiable individuals, specifically because people were claiming we were telling people they should become anti-AI terrorists. You're not the first to come to this conclusion.

This may not be the best place to ask, but is Evolutionary Psychology actually falsifiable?

1ikrase
Probably depends on what you mean. It does make predictions, but it is very difficult to get away from what is already known.

The fact that she was designed just for me...that in itself would ruin it for me.

4bzealley
It's a bit questionable if the relationship is one way, but it could be designed to be a symmetric "best" for the companion too. Okay, more CPU cycles, but this reeks of hard take-off, which probably means new physics... Also, a bit more technically but I hope worth adding - if the companion already exists in any possible world, the fact that you engineer a situation where you are able to perceive one another isn't creating a pattern ex nihilo, it's discovering one. Takes some of the wind out of the argument, although you still certainly have a point on privacy if the relationship is asymmetric.

That "difference" comes from the culture surrounding the two books, not any innate property or value of the books themselves.

"Did you learn this from an unbiased source?"

I'm pretty sure it was in Tolkien's notes.

"Suppose you're the prime minister of a parliamentary republic, and the neighboring country is ruled by hereditary nobility that mostly hate each other, and wars between the barons ruin a lot of the land and kill a lot of the peasants. You, being a genius engineer, have figured out a way to control people, but it requires they wear the device for an extended period of time, the effects are obvious, and they can take it off before the process is complete if... (read more)

3Vaniver
Right, and Brin's premise is that Tolkien is a biased source. If those slaves were the dictators of the old era? Seems suitably karmic. "My own moral judgment" is a tricky thing in this situation, as it depends on which situation we're describing. If I have first-hand experience of the events of LotR, and everything is as Tolkien describes it, then yeah, it's pretty obvious that Sauron is the bad guy. If I have third-hand experience of the events of LotR, think that at most 90% of the description is accurate, and I think that the philosophies of the modern day are present in the LotR world, then it seems plausible that Sauron is the good guy, for the reasons Brin describes. You might be interested in The Sword of Good, if you haven't read it. [edit] It looks like you commented there today, but I'll leave the recommendation here for any spectators to the conversation.

I'd like to think I would have noticed the moral problems with what the "good" guys were doing on my own, and without the benefit of knowing who the author was. I think I would have, but I'm not totally confidence in my Milgram Resistance.

The ending did bother me, though. Why was Hirou willing to believe everything Vhazhar told him without trying to verify it? Why did he kill Dolf instead of accepting that Dolf was simply limited by the moral myopia of his own society, which he clearly was? Maybe exceptionally good people like Vhazhar could see t... (read more)

I think Sauron did enough explicitly evil stuff to make himself the bad guy. Tricking the Numenorians into destroying themselves out of spite is pretty hard to justify.

There's also the fact that orcs don't have free will. They were created from tortured elves and mindraped into obedience. The fact that Sauron was willing to use them as canon fodder rather than trying to find a way to reverse what Melkor did to them speaks worlds about his moral virtue.

Finally, the rings. Using mind control to turn foreign leaders into your obedient thralls, consoling them ... (read more)

2Vaniver
Did you learn this from an unbiased source? Suppose you're the prime minister of a parliamentary republic, and the neighboring country is ruled by hereditary nobility that mostly hate each other, and wars between the barons ruin a lot of the land and kill a lot of the peasants. You, being a genius engineer, have figured out a way to control people, but it requires they wear the device for an extended period of time, the effects are obvious, and they can take it off before the process is complete if they feel like it. This hereditary nobility situation is obviously not going to fix itself- and you figure that the easiest way to fix it is to corrupt all the nobility, playing on their hatred of each other to get them to wear the devices long enough for them to work, and then have them give you power in a bloodless coup. As a bonus, you now have fanatically loyal assassins / spec ops forces, and an eternity of servitude seems like a fitting punishment for their misconduct as rulers.

Indeed. His willingness to kill Dolf without asking any questions or making any attempts to verify the Dark Lord's statements just shows that Hirou still hasn't learned anything.

Dementors don't act like death incarnate, though. Death isn't reactive to human expectations and sensibilities. Death doesn't go out of its way to try to destroy people. Death is just a force of nature (or, rather, the point at which a force of nature terminates). Dementors act like a superstitious anthropomorphization of death.

We also know that there is a dark ritual that summons Death, which Quirrel knows but is afraid to perform.

We know, too, that spells modify reality based on the caster's understanding of the natural world, rather than using the most ... (read more)

That's only a legal formality, though. Harry hates the wizard society and wouldn't use its laws against her, and he'd discourage others from acknowledging it.

Still, Hermione (unlike Harry) cares what others think of her, so being surrounded by people who act as if she belongs to Harry is going to hurt her.

3Eugine_Nier
He's just (ab)used the laws of wizarding society to get Hermione out. I can certainly imagine him using his position over her if it is useful for solving the next crisis he has to deal with. Also, Harry has a dark side, it might also do things.

Does the notion of future humans being irrational, self-deluded hypocrites really strike you as so implausible? Just because they think they're smarter than our generation doesn't mean they actually are.

I've thought about this as well. Its basically the same question as "If I had the option of living in a virtual reality fantasy world without ever knowing that the real world existed, and I would be happier in the VR world, would I rather live there?" Is increased happiness worth the cost of self-deception?

I've tried to do what you describe. It didn't work, and it made me feel cheap, like I wasn't respecting myself. That's just my own subjective experience of course.

2buybuydandavis
Sounds like you are blessed and cursed with a mind that values epistemic rationality over instrumental rationality. That's how your neural net is wired. It's one thing to see the argument. It's another to feel it in your values. We're probably just a mutation that helps group survival at our own expense.
2buybuydandavis
That's my subjective experience as well. But clearly other people don't operate the same way, to the same extent. I compare it to the recent empirical work on morality, where they have found a number of different moral modalities by which people determine something good or bad, and further found that people weight those modalities differently. Fairness might have the greatest weight to you, while autonomy might have the greatest to me. I think a similar thing happens with ideas. They get accepted according to a multimodal valuation. Only one of those modes is predictive power, but that's the mode predominant in rationalist circles, and rationalists get together and wonder how other people can believe tripe. Well, because the tripe fulfills some other valuation that we don't feel as strongly. Maybe that value is believing what powerful people tell you. Maybe that value is believing what your neighbors believe. Maybe that value is believing what your elders believe. Maybe it's not believing what your elders believe.

I read the first few sentences and was about to start formulating my enraged response, but then I looked at the date. Well played, my friend. Well played.

Economic: money is obsolete. Due to the ease of travel, transportation, and communication in this world, the problems with barter have evaporated, and we've gone back to our ancestral exchange of goods and services. For those instances when the only person who has what you want doesn't want anything that you have, you can use a barter broker, which incurs an additional expense no worse than exchanging currency or buying on credit today.

Sexual: we've biologically altered ourselves to not care so ridiculously much about sex anymore. Its still a fun thing to ... (read more)

1Strange7
What does the unskilled worker caste do that robots can't?

Okay, maybe not strictly impossible, but probably harder than using one of the moons of Jupiter, or building a giant space colony with a simulated earthlike environment.

Personally, knowing that my verthandis were created specifically for me would make me want them less. Even if they were strong-willed, intelligent, and independent, I'd still -know- that their existence is tailored to suit my tastes, and this would prevent me from seeing them as real people. And I'd want real women.

2SteveJordan
I know this is way past its expiry date, but I have to ask: Exactly how much dysfunction / argument / neglect / abuse would it take to make you happy? Your organic brain just isn't that complex compared to an artillect like that Genie. It sounds like that would be baked in to your Verthandi. If she's a modified em, then she's functionally as "human" as any of us. Or perhaps you'd need her to come after you with a carving knife to persuade you she's genuinely hurt by your rejection?

I don't see how those are mutually exclusive.

The clever fool doesn't seem to have taken these facts into account. He was a fool, after all.

Presumably, your own personal verthandi(s) would have other hobbies, because you would want them to.

pnrjulius
150

Right, and that's exactly the point. She is your best possible partner---including being sentient, being intelligent, etc. I honestly have trouble seeing what's wrong with that.

Well, realistically speaking Venus is probably impossible to terraform at all. The Mars and Venus thing seems to be included just for the symbolic value.

5thomblake
"impossible" is a pretty strong claim when talking about superintelligences.

I didn't get that impression, after reading this within the context of the rest of the sequence. Rather, it seems like a warning about the importance of foresight when planning a transhuman future. The "clever fool" in the story (presumably a parody of the author himself) released a self-improving AI into the world without knowing exactly what it was going to do or planning for every contingency.

Basically, the moral is: don't call the AI "friendly" until you've thought of every single last thing.

Yosarian2
140

Corollary: you haven't thought of every last thing.

When the critical 90% threshold is reached and the AI self-destructs, will there be anything left behind to ensure human safety? He said that the world he created will remain in his wake, but will it be able to maintain itself without his sentient oversight? Is there any completely reliable mechanism that could prevent ecological collapse, or a deadly mutation in the catgirls/boys, or a failure in the robots that protect people from harm?

If not, then the clever fool who created the AI was really, really a fool. You'd think he'd have at least included a contingency that makes the AI reset everything back to the way it was before it self-destructs....

This is by far the likeliest explanation I've seen. It does lead one to wonder how many wizards are sitting on huge piles of muggle money and slowly converting it into galleons as needed.

Is it bad that I totally want this line to appear in the story now?

And, as we already know, Quirrel is a very, very good con man.

If Voldemort's possession ability worked like that, though, why wouldn't he just use Quirrel's body for that? You'd think that he would make sure to use his smartest host for anything requiring puzzle solving or careful manipulation.

4shokwave
Perhaps Voldemort doesn't want Quirrell to know certain going plans? Perhaps Voldemort thinks not involving Quirrell is the most effective method of convincing targets that someone other than Quirrell is doing this? Perhaps Hat-and-Cloak's secrecy is to normal people what Quirrell's brilliance is to Harry (convincing), and Voldemort thinks or know that Quirrell can't pull off being H-&-C properly? Perhaps Quirrell is monitored in some way that he can't safely or nonsuspiciously avoid (I can believe Dumbledore setting up some such thing) and so Voldemort does just enough to fly under the "openly hostile" rader, using Hat-and-Cloak to strike the tinder as it were? I don't know, but I suspect that if my claim is the case, the answer to your question is a reason the story itself does not reveal. He certainly does the lion's share. Perhaps Hat-and-Cloak only handles less challenging or less dangerous-to-fail situations.

I think its worse than that for Harry.

Remember that one possible means of Voldemort's resurrection is possessing someone, like he is now (presumably) possessing Quirrel. I think he ultimately plans to turn Harry into a perfect host for himself, and then jump into Harry's body once the latter has conquered the world for him.

Voldemort. He'd summon Voldemort's ghost and make it tell him the spells it learned from Salazar's basilisk.

0Anubhav
... Why are people still splitting hairs over it? It was answered a few chapters later.
0Eneasz
At this point in the story Harry didn't know about the basilisk yet.
0pedanterrific
happens after

I wonder if this is a reference to the movie "Amelie," with her seemingly supernatural ability to correctly guess how many orgasms are taking place in Paris at any given moment.

Interesting theory. Though one wonders why Dumbledore didn't just grab the diary and bring it to a safe location before destroying it.

Maybe there was some kind of alarm that would have instantly summoned Lucius if it was taken out of the house? Then again, if you had an alarm system, you'd think someone casting the most destructive spell known to the modern world inside your house would also trip it...

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