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Prudhviraj Naidu's Shortform
Prudhviraj Naidu7d70

If military AGI is akin to nuclear bombs, then would it be justified to attack the country trying to militarize AGI? What would the first act of war in future wars be? 

If a country A is building a nuke, then the argument for country B to pre-emptively attack it is that the first act of war involving nukes would effectively end country B. In this case, the act of war is still a physical explosion. 

In case of AI, what would be the first act of war akin to physical explosion? Would country B be able to even detect if AI is being used against it? If ... (read more)

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Viliam1h20

The "information war" sounds like politics as usual. Propaganda, censorship, Twitter, TikTok -- all have existed long before AGI.

International politics is not about fairness, but about how strong you are, who are your allies, and how far you can go before they stop supporting you. Israel can do whatever it wants, because there are many people in USA who will defend it no matter what. India does not have that kind of support. On the other hand, there is probably no need to worry about Trump; he always says some strong words to show his fans who is the boss,... (read more)

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Nicolas Lupinski's Shortform
Nicolas Lupinski7d10

Are there known "rational paradoxes", akin to logical paradoxes ? A basic example is the following :

In the optimal search problem, the cost of search at position i is C_i, and the a priori probability of finding at i is P_i. 

Optimality requires to sort search locations by non-decreasing P_i/C_i : search in priority where the likelyhood of finding divided by the cost of search is the highest.

But since sorting cost is O(n log(n)), C_i must grow faster than O(log(i)) otherwise sorting is asymptotically wastefull.

Do you know any other ?

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Showing 3 of 5 replies (Click to show all)
2JBlack5d
There are O(n) sorting methods for max-sorting bounded data like this, with generalized extensions of radix sort. It's bounded because C_i is bounded below by the minimum cost of evaluating C_i (e.g. 1 FLOP), and P_i is bounded above by 1. Though yes, bounded rationality is a broad class of concepts to which this problem belongs and there are very few known results that apply across the whole class.
1Nicolas Lupinski4d
So P_i/C_i is in [0,1], the precision is unbounded, but for some reason, a radix sort can do the job in linear time ? There could be pathological cases where all P_i/C_i are the same up to epsilon. I guess I'm searching for situation where doing cost c, computing c cost c', etc... Branching prediction comes to mind.  
Viliam2h20

There could be pathological cases where all P_i/C_i are the same up to epsilon.

We could dismiss that by saying that if the ratios are the same up to epsilon, then it does not truly matter which one of them we choose.

(Mathematically speaking, we could redefine the problem from "choosing the best option" to "making sure that our regret is not greater than X".)

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JustisMills's Shortform
JustisMills1d6053

I think there's a weak moral panic brewing here in terms of LLM usage, leading people to jump to conclusions they otherwise wouldn't, and assume "xyz person's brain is malfunctioning due to LLM use" before considering other likely options. As an example, someone on my recent post implied that the reason I didn't suggest using spellcheck for typo fixes was because my personal usage of LLMs was unhealthy, rather than (the actual reason) that using the browser's inbuilt spellcheck as a first pass seemed so obvious to me that it didn't bear mentioning.

Even if ... (read more)

Reply3
Showing 3 of 5 replies (Click to show all)
2johnswentworth3h
Do you happen to know the number? Or is this a vibe claim?
Caleb Biddulph2h30

It is quite high: 

The current thinking is that although around 1.5 to 3.5% of people will meet diagnostic criteria for a psychotic disorder, a significantly larger, variable number will experience at least one psychotic symptom in their lifetime.

The cited study is a survey of 7076 people in the Netherlands, which mentions:

  • 1.5% sample prevalence of "any DSM-III-R diagnosis of psychotic disorder"
  • 4.2% sample prevalence of "any rating of hallucinations and/or delusions"
  • 17.5% sample prevalence of "any rating of psychotic or psychosislike symptoms"
Reply1
11localdeity15h
Perhaps one effect is that the help of LLMs in writing brings some people from “too incoherent or bad at words to post anything at all, or if they do post it’ll get no attention” to “able to put something together that’s good enough to gain attention”, and the LLMs are just increasing the verbal fluency without improving the underlying logic. Result: we see more illogical stuff being posted, technically as a result of people using LLMs.
Decaeneus's Shortform
Decaeneus2h30

For me, a crux about the impact of AI on education broadly is how our appetite for entertainment behaves at the margins close to entertainment saturation.

Possibility 1: it will always be very tempting to direct our attention to the most entertaining alternative, even at very high levels of entertainment

Possibility 2: there is some absolute threshold of entertainment above which we become indifferent between unequally entertaining alternatives

If Possibility 1 holds, I have a hard time seeing how any kind of informational or educational content, which is con... (read more)

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Vladimir_Nesov's Shortform
Vladimir_Nesov1d742

There is some conceptual misleadingness with the usual ways of framing algorithmic progress. Imagine that in 2022 the number of apples produced on some farm increased 10x year-over-year, then in 2023 the number of oranges increased 10x, and then in 2024 the number of pears increased 10x. That doesn't mean that the number of fruits is up 1000x in 3 years.

Price-performance of compute compounds over many years, but most algorithmic progress doesn't, it only applies to the things relevant around the timeframe when that progress happens, and stops being applica... (read more)

Reply4
5Buck3h
This is a reasonable point in principle, but I don't know how important it is in practice. My sense is that most things identified as algorithmic improvements continue to be algorithmic improvements over the previously-done thing at higher scales? E.g. transformers beating LSTMs, Chinchilla scaling, GeLU over ReLU, probably RL to train reasoning, etc.
Vladimir_Nesov2h*20

I think pretraining data pipeline improvements have this issue, they stop helping with larger models that want more data (or it becomes about midtraining). And similarly for the benchmark-placating better post-training data that enables ever less intelligent models to get good scores, but probably doesn't add up to much (at least when it's not pretraining-scale RLVR).

Things like MoE, GLU over LU, maybe DyT or Muon add up to a relatively modest compute multiplier over the original Transformer. For example Transformer++ vs. Transformer in Figure 4 of the Mam... (read more)

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Codex (short works)
xen94h10

LLMs allow us to finally scale up our ancient chatbots (expert systems) and other fully artificial generation, analogous to original Moog. Why is no one intent on doing this?

Crazy.

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Kabir Kumar's Shortform
Kabir Kumar6h20

a youtuber with 25k subscribers, with a channel on technical deep learning, is making a promo vid for the moonshot program.
Talking about what alignment is, what agent foundations is, etc. His phd is in neuroscience. 
do you want to comment on the script?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YyDIj2ohxwzaGVdyNxmmShCeAP-SVlvJSaDdyFdh6-s/edit?tab=t.0

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Kabir Kumar5h10


btw, for links and stuff, 
e.g. to lesswrong posts, see the planning tab please and the format of:

Link:

What info to extract from this link:

How a researcher can use this info to solve alignment:

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Daniel Kokotajlo's Shortform
Daniel Kokotajlo3d7020

I have recurring worries about how what I've done could turn out to be net-negative.

  • Maybe my leaving OpenAI was partially responsible for the subsequent exodus of technical alignment talent to Anthropic, and maybe that's bad for "all eggs in one basket" reasons.
  • Maybe AGI will happen in 2029 or 2031 instead of 2027 and society will be less prepared, rather than more, because politically loads of people will be dunking on us for writing AI 2027, and so they'll e.g. say "OK so now we are finally automating AI R&D, but don't worry it's not going to be superintelligent anytime soon, that's what those discredited doomers think. AI is a normal technology."
Reply2121
Showing 3 of 15 replies (Click to show all)
3Anthony DiGiovanni21h
Taken literally, this sounds like a strong knife-edge condition to me. Why do you think this? Even if what you really mean is "close enough to 50/50 that the first-order effect dominates," that also sounds like a strong claim given how many non-first-order effects we should expect there to be (ETA: and given how out-of-distribution the problem of preventing AI risk seems to be).
JustisMills6h20

I guess I was imagining an implied "in expectation", like predictions about second order effects of a certain degree of speculativeness are inaccurate enough that they're basically useless, and so shouldn't shift the expected value of an action. There are definitely exceptions and it'd depend how you formulate it, but "maybe my action was relevant to an emergent social phenomenon containing many other people with their own agency, and that phenomenon might be bad for abstract reasons, but it's too soon to tell" just feels like... you couldn't have anticipa... (read more)

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3Daniel Kokotajlo1d
Thanks.  Right yeah the slowdown ending was another possible mistake. (Though I would be highly surprised if it has a noticeable negative effect on ability to make deals with China -- surely the CCP does not have much trust for the US currently. Best path forward is for a deal to be based on verification and mutual self-interest, rather than trust.) I do think it's kinda funny that, afaict, the world's best, most coherent account of how the AGI transition could be fine for most people is our own slowdown ending... 
Decaeneus's Shortform
Decaeneus6h10

Maybe there's a deep connection between:

(a) human propensity to emotionally adjust to the goodness / badness our recent circumstances such that we arrive at emotional homeostasis and it's mostly the relative level / the change in circumstances that we "feel"

(b) batch normalization, the common operation for training neural networks

 

Our trailing experiences form a kind of batch of "training data" on which we update, and perhaps we batchnorm their goodness since that's the superior way to update on data without all the pathologies of not normalizing.

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xpostah's Shortform
samuelshadrach10h20

Experts' AI timelines, YouTube short

Experts' AI timelines, not so short

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Lowther's Shortform
Lowther3d10

Does anyone here have any tips on customizing and testing their AI? Personally, if I'm asking for an overview of a subject I'm unfamiliar with, I want the AI to examine things from a skeptical point of view. My main test case for this was: "What can you tell me about H. H. Holmes?" Initially, all the major AIs I tried, like ChatGPT, failed badly. But it seems they're doing better with that question nowadays, even without customization.

Why ask that question? Because there is an overwhelming flood of bad information about H. H. Holmes that drowns out more pl... (read more)

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CstineSublime11h10

Slightly different, but I tried some experiments deliberately misspelling celebrity names - note how when I ask about "Miranda June" and then say "sorry I got my months mixed up" it apologizes that it knows nothing, yet correctly describes Miranda July as a "artist, filmmaker, writer and actress"

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Davey Morse's Shortform
Davey Morse10d343

superintelligence may not look like we expect. because geniuses don't look like we expect.

for example, if einstein were to type up and hand you most of his internal monologue throughout his life, you might think he's sorta clever, but if you were reading a random sample you'd probably think he was a bumbling fool. the thoughts/realizations that led him to groundbreaking theories were like 1% of 1% of all his thoughts.

for most of his research career he was working on trying to disprove quantum mechanics (wrong). he was trying to organize a political movemen... (read more)

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Showing 3 of 6 replies (Click to show all)
5Viliam1d
The AI may have the advantage of being able to test many hypothesis in parallel. For example, if it can generate 10000 hypotheses on how to manipulate people, it could contact a million people and test each hypothesis on 100 of them. Similarly, with some initial capital, it could create thousand different companies, and observe which strategies succeed and which ones fail.
MondSemmel12h20

Yes, that's the kind of thing I find impressive/scary. Not merely generating ideas.

Reply
4saulius7d
reminds me of this
papetoast's Shortforms
papetoast20h20

The ERROR Project: https://error.reviews/

Quoting Malte Elson

The very short description of ERROR is that we pay experts to examine important and influential scientific publications for errors in order to strengthen the culture of error checking, error acceptance, and error correction in our field. As in other bug bounty programs, the payout scales with the magnitude of errors found. Less important errors pay a smaller fee, whereas more important errors that affect core conclusions yield a larger payout.

We expect most published research to contain at least s... (read more)

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ProgramCrafter14h00

We expect most published research to contain at least some errors

Have you set up the prediction markets on that? Not necessarily "is there an error in this paper", but "in this group of publications, what fraction has an issue of this kind" and so on.

Reply
Cole Wyeth's Shortform
Cole Wyeth1d50

If instead of building LLMs, tech companies had spent billions of dollars designing new competing search engines that had no ads but might take a few minutes to run and cost a few cents per query, would the result have been more or less useful?

Reply
Showing 3 of 6 replies (Click to show all)
2Julian Bradshaw18h
I think that would require text comprehension too. I guess it's an interesting question if you can build an AI that can comprehend text but not produce it?
3Karl Krueger1d
My impression is that the decline of search engines has little to do with search ads. It has more to do with a decline in public webpage authoring in favor of walled gardens, chat systems, etc.: new organic human-written material that once would have been on a public forum site (or home page!) is today often instead in an unindexable Discord chat or inside an app. Meanwhile, spammy content on the public Web has continued to escalate; and now LLMs are helping make more and more of it.
clone of saturn17h41

But most of LLMs' knowledge comes from the public Web, so clearly there is still a substantial amount of useful content on it, and maybe if search engines had remained good enough at filtering spam fewer people would have fled to Discord.

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AlphaAndOmega's Shortform
AlphaAndOmega17h20

On using LLMs for review and self-critique while avoiding sycophantic failure modes:

(Originally written as a reply to Kaj's post) 

For a long time, just as long as they were productively capable of the same, I've used LLMs to review my writing, be it fictional or not, or offer feedback and critique. 

The majority of LLMs are significantly sycophantic, to the point that you have to meaningfully adjust downwards unless you're in it for the sole purpose of flattering your ego. I've noticed this to a degree in just about all of them, but it's particula... (read more)

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Finnigan234's Shortform
Finnigan23421h10

Terminal Recursion – A Thought Experiment on Consciousness at Death

I had a post recently rejected for being too speculative (which I totally understand!). I'm 16 and still learning, but I'm interested in feedback on this idea, even if it's unprovable.

What if, instead of a flash of memories, the brain at death enters a recursive simulation of life, creating the illusion that it’s still alive? Is this even philosophically coherent or just a fancy solipsism trap? Would love your thoughts.

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Thane Ruthenis's Shortform
Thane Ruthenis3d*Ω15367

It seems to me that many disagreements regarding whether the world can be made robust against a superintelligent attack (e. g., the recent exchange here) are downstream of different people taking on a mathematician's vs. a hacker's mindset.

Quoting Gwern:

A mathematician might try to transform a program up into successively more abstract representations to eventually show it is trivially correct; a hacker would prefer to compile a program down into its most concrete representation to brute force all execution paths & find an exploit trivially proving it

... (read more)
Reply5
Showing 3 of 5 replies (Click to show all)
3ACCount2d
If you assume that ASI would have to engage in anything that looks remotely like peer warfare, you're working off the wrong assumptions. Peer warfare requires there to be a peer. Even an ASI that's completely incapable of developing superhuman technology and can't just break out the trump cards of nanotech/bioengineering/superpersuation is an absolute menace. Because one of the most dangerous capabilities an ASI has is that it can talk to people. Look at what Ron Hubbard or Adolf Hitler have accomplished - mostly by talking to people. They used completely normal human-level persuation, and they weren't even superintelligent.
Noosphere891d*20

I agree with this to first order, and I agree that even relatively mundane stuff does allow the AI to take over eventually, and I agree that in the longer run, ASI v human warfare likely wouldn't have both sides as peers, because it's plausibly relatively easy to make humans coordinate poorly, especially relative to ASI ability to coordinate.

There's a reason I didn't say AI takeover was impossible or had very low odds here, I still think AI takeover is an important problem to work on.

But I do think it actually matters here, because it informs stuff like ho... (read more)

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2quetzal_rainbow2d
The concept of weird machine is the closest to be useful here and an important quetion here is "how to check that our system doesn't form any weird machine here".
RobertM's Shortform
RobertM4d*164

People sometimes ask me what's good about glowfic, as a reader.

You know that extremely high-context joke you could only make to that one friend you've known for years, because you shared a bunch of specific experiences which were load-bearing for the joke to make sense at all, let alone be funny[1]?  And you know how that joke is much funnier than the average low-context joke?

Well, reading glowfic is like that, but for fiction.  You get to know a character as imagined by an author in much more depth than you'd get with traditional fiction, becaus... (read more)

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sjadler1d30

I haven’t read glowfic before, but this resonates with me re: what’s fun about all-star seasons of Survivor. Players you know now being in new contexts, with new opponents, and with you maybe having more emotional stake in a specific player winning because you’ve rooted for them previously.

In the case of Survivor though, you also get players who are now aware of their edit/meta, and which can sometimes flanderize them or cause them to have baggage that requires a change in strategy. That’s sometimes interesting - can this known liar somehow trick people _again- ? - but also sometimes results in the fan favorite players getting voted out earlier.

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Shortform
lc9d10

O the things I would write, were I better at writing.

Reply2
3Guive9d
It took me a minute to read this as an exclamatory O, rather than as "[There are] zero things I would write, were I better at writing."
Viliam1d20

My first reading was "O" as zero and "I" as one, and the message felt mysterious and IT-related but I couldn't decipher its intended meaning.

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Seth Herd's Shortform
Seth Herd1d296

We Need Better Plans for Short Timelines:

Plans are worthless, but planning is everything.

I believe this wholeheartedly. Planning demands thinking realistically about the situation and the goals, and that dramatically ups the odds of success. Plans won't perfectly address what actually occurs, but that's evidence you need more, not less, planning.

The responses to @Marius Hobbhahn's What’s the short timeline plan? convinced me that we are in need of better plans for alignment. Fairly complete plans were given for control and interpretability, ... (read more)

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peterr1d90

Thanks Seth! I appreciate you signal boosting this and laying out your reasoning for why planning is so critical for AI safety. 

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