HughRistik comments on The Terrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Bad Truth About Morality and What To Do About It - Less Wrong

38 [deleted] 11 June 2009 12:31PM

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Comment author: HughRistik 11 June 2009 11:55:18PM 3 points [-]

Again, I ask that you look at this from the perspective of an actual participant in the survey. That person is imagining grabbing a random person and tossing them off a bridge on very short notice. Numerous factors come into play, and the participant is going to consider them whether or not you assure them that they don't matter.

Another reason the trolley problem is bogus is that if you were really in such a situation, you wouldn't be sure your attempt to push the guy onto the track would even succeed. What if he saw you coming and resisted? Pushing a lever with 100% of success is different from pushing a guy with 87% estimated success and consequences if you fail.

Comment author: ciphergoth 12 June 2009 01:38:32PM 5 points [-]

Yes, I think this is a serious problem. All the ways I can think of to give you a very high chance of shoving the guy off mean that you don't have to actually touch him, just (say) cut a rope, and that wouldn't just make it more likely you'd succeed but introduce a counfounding effect of making it slightly less personal for you.

This is in part because I don't really believe the explanation for non-shoving that says it has to do with not using people to an end; I think it's just squeamishness about shoving someone with your own hands who was right next to you. If you were dropping them onto the tracks from a great distance by pulling a lever, I think people would pull the lever a lot more often. I haven't tested this, of course.

Comment deleted 12 June 2009 12:12:34AM [-]
Comment author: scav 12 June 2009 08:38:27AM -1 points [-]

Well if you fine-tune the conditions of a hypothetical dilemma too much, people will tend to go with a useful heuristic: they will call bullshit.