AndrewKemendo comments on Better thinking through experiential games - Less Wrong

29 Post author: Morendil 23 October 2009 12:59PM

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Comment author: AndrewKemendo 23 October 2009 01:32:19PM *  18 points [-]

A few months ago I stumbled upon a game wherein the goal is to guide an elephant from one side of the screen to a pipe; perhaps you have seen it:

This is the only level

Here's the rub: The rules change on every level. In order to do well you have to be quick to change your view of how the new virtual world works. That takes a flexible mind and accurate interpretation of the cues that the game gives you.

I sent this to some of my colleagues and have concluded anecdotally that their mental flexibility is in rough correlation with their results from the game. I think that experimental games are great and would, if done in a controlled setting, be an interesting way to evaluate mental acuity.

Comment author: PeerInfinity 24 October 2009 06:27:23PM *  8 points [-]

While I'm at it, here are links to a bunch of other games that require some degree of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules:

Factory Balls and Factory Balls 2

Easy. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, once you figure out what the rules are.

Aether

Easy. Requires solving some puzzles without any hints what the puzzle is or what a solution would look like. Solvabe just by trying random things until something happens.

Duck, think outside the flock

Medium. A series of puzzles, each of which has different rules.

me and the key

Medium. A series of puzzles, each of which has different rules.

Electric Box

Medium. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, but you have to figure out how to put them together.

Dynamic Systems

Medium. Each level introduces new puzzle pieces, but no dramatic changes in the rules. The solutions are all inside the box, but you have to figure out how to put them together.

Casual Gameplay Escape

Hard! A series of puzzles, connected by other puzzles, each of which have different rules, and most of which have a counterintuitive solution. Hints about the solutions are cleverly hidden in the game. Hint: Gur cevagfperra ohggba vf lbhe sevraq. (rot13'd)

Take Something Literally

Hard. A series of puzzles, each of which has a deliberately counterintuitive, and often malevolent, solution. Don't worry if you can't solve all of them, some of the solutions require specific computer hardware or softwae to win.

The Impossible Quiz and The Impossible Quiz 2

Almost Impossible. A series of quiz questions and other challenges that have deliberately counterintuitive solutions. Some of the quiz questions are solvable only by trial and error. Some of the challenges require extremely fast reflexes. Many of the puzzles are blatantly evil. Do not expect to win this. You have been warned.

The rest of these games don't really fit with the theme of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules, but are unique enough to include in the list anyway:

Closure

Medium. A unique game, but the rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Time Kufc

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Red Remover

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Shift, Shift 2, Shift 3, and Shift 4

Medium. This game doesn't really belong in this list. The rules don't change much, except when new puzzle elements are introduced. The solutions are mostly inside the box.

Exploit

Medium. Actually, this doesn't belong in this list at all. The rules don't change, and the solutions are all quite literally inside the box.

There are plenty of other good puzzle games I could link to, but they didn't really fit with the theme of thinking outside the box and adapting to changing rules.

Question: Would it be inappropriate to put this list somewhere on the Less Wrong Wiki?

Comment author: phane 25 October 2009 07:45:10AM *  2 points [-]

These kinds of games just remind me of this Monty Python skit. There's no rules by which to play, so you're just trying to guess what the author is thinking.

Comment author: AndrewKemendo 25 October 2009 03:29:49AM 0 points [-]

Would it be inappropriate to put this list somewhere on the Less Wrong Wiki?

I think that would be great if we had a good repository of mind games

Comment author: PeerInfinity 25 October 2009 06:59:52PM 6 points [-]

Ok, I went ahead and added the list to the wiki: http://wiki.lesswrong.com/wiki/Puzzle_Game_Index

Unless anyone objects, I plan to continue adding more games to this list.

Comment author: ABranco 26 October 2009 02:24:31PM 0 points [-]

I liked it, good job!

Comment author: Alicorn 24 October 2009 06:45:12PM 0 points [-]

This is a fun puzzle game. The basic rules don't change at all, but you have no significant chance of winning without getting some of the "extra" tools, and the game board itself is more limiting each level.

Comment author: SilasBarta 23 October 2009 10:52:18PM *  1 point [-]

Okay, I completed it without any help (didn't read the comments). My stats are: 15:03:50, Deaths: 85.

Should I be proud of myself?

ETA: Some of them I didn't even understand how the rules were different, I just manipulated the elephant well enough to get it to the end.

Comment author: AndrewKemendo 24 October 2009 05:09:51AM 1 point [-]

I think a lot of it has to do with your experience with computer based games and web applications.

This is why I say it would have to be a controlled study because those with significant computer experience and gaming experience have a distinct edge on those who do not. For example many gamers would automatically go to the WASD control pattern (which is what some first person shooting games use) on the "alternate control" level.

5:57:18 with 15 deaths here

Comment author: Peter_de_Blanc 24 October 2009 12:39:39AM 0 points [-]

10:59:17.5, 64 deaths.

Comment author: Morendil 23 October 2009 07:34:43PM *  1 point [-]

Well, I'm stuck at "Time for a refresh" for the moment. I'll have to sleep on it, I guess.

ETA: my kids took over, and naturally they just breezed right through "Time to refresh", I didn't even have time to notice how. I got my revenge when they got stuck at "Credit page", my favorite of all. We got through the whole thing in 35 minutes.

Quite fun, though not quite the kind of "serious game" I have in mind above.

Comment author: listic 23 October 2009 09:02:09PM *  0 points [-]

I was stuck on "Time for a refresh" too. V gbbx n uvag gung vg'f gvzr gb uvg S5 naq erserfu n cntr. Gung'f jung V qvq, naq gur tnzr fgnegrq sebz gur ortvaavat :-)

Nice game, though I'm not sure how serious it is.

UPDATE: Sorry, didn't know there's a spoiler. Is it ok now?

Comment author: AngryParsley 24 October 2009 08:21:53PM *  1 point [-]

Please rot13 your spoiler.

Edit: Thanks!

Comment author: taw 23 October 2009 05:54:18PM 1 point [-]

It's a brilliant game. Are there any others like it?

Comment author: PeerInfinity 23 October 2009 06:58:58PM *  1 point [-]

Yes, here's a similar game starring that same elephant:

Achievement Unlocked

Another vaguely similar game:

Take Something Literally

Comment author: taw 24 October 2009 01:49:55AM 4 points [-]

I really dislike "Take Something Literally". First, some puzzles don't work on Mac (caps lock, wheel and a few others), what's mentioned nowhere. And second, it feels more like the author is trying to be a smart ass, than like it's a fun experience.

Comment author: PeerInfinity 24 October 2009 05:39:02PM 0 points [-]

Yes, some of those were just annoying. There were a few that I couldn't solve.

Some of the puzzles have alternate solutions if you don't have a microphone or mousewheel or whatever.

For example:

Ba gur yriry jurer lbh'er fhccbfrq gb oybj vagb gur zvpebcubar, na nygreangr fbyhgvba vf gb glcr "oybj" ba gur xrlobneq.

(rot13'd)

Comment author: CronoDAS 24 October 2009 03:43:46AM 2 points [-]

For the version from the Dark Side:

The Impossible Quiz

There is no level of thinking sufficient to solve The Impossible Quiz, because the "correct" answers are ridiculous and arbitrary.

Comment author: PeerInfinity 24 October 2009 05:34:52PM -1 points [-]

And so you have to make a guess, and start over if you guess wrong, remembering what not to guess next time. This may have been what the game designer intended.

I got stuck on the part with the toenails, about halfway through the game. I just couldn't click fast enough.

See also The Impossible Quiz 2

I also got about halfway through this one.

Comment author: cousin_it 23 October 2009 06:11:37PM 1 point [-]

This one is somewhat similar: Karoshi Suicide Salaryman.

Comment author: taryneast 22 March 2011 02:11:48PM 0 points [-]

Thanks for that one... Extremely addictive and fun :)