taw comments on Case study: Melatonin - Less Wrong

21 Post author: gwern 07 January 2010 06:24PM

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Comment author: taw 08 January 2010 12:17:55AM 0 points [-]

And what evidence do you have that it works the way you say without side effects... ? My self-experiments with Provigil say that nothing can reduce my long term need to sleep without severely deteriorating my mental capacity. Plural of anecdote being data...

Comment author: gwern 09 January 2010 04:46:19PM 2 points [-]

And what evidence do you have that it works the way you say without side effects... ?

Feel free to go through WP, all the studies linked in various places on this page, and every study that 2 seconds on Google & Google Scholar would turn up, and explain them all away.

My self-experiments with Provigil say that nothing can reduce my long term need to sleep without severely deteriorating my mental capacity.

I never said you needed less sleep. I said you needed less time for sleep; they're not the same thing. Not every minute spent in bed 'sleeping' is actual sleep, nor every minute asleep of equal value & quality; to quote myself:

I am unsure whether its effect is to put one to sleep faster, or to do that and also deepen sleep, but melatonin does it well.

Either effect might be the reason, or both of them together.

Comment author: taw 09 January 2010 08:40:38PM 1 point [-]

Which studies do you find particularly convincing? Cochrane has only meta-analysis of short-term melatonin use for jet lag, which I don't doubt.

Which studies show that melatonin allows long term reduction in need for sleep, and that this sleep reduction has no negative consequences?

Saying you need "less time for sleep" only applies to people who have difficulties falling asleep, and needs some evidence anyway.