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ciphergoth comments on The Wannabe Rational - Less Wrong
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I can't quite follow that description. "More prime" really is an objective description of a yardstick against which you can measure the world. So is "preferred by me". But to use "objectively better" as a synonym for "preferred by byrnema" seems to me to invite confusion.
Yes it does, and I took your position recently when this terminological question came up, with Eliezer insisting on the same usage that I applied above and most of everyone else objecting to that as confusing (link to the thread -- H/T to Wei Dai).
The reason to take up this terminology is to answer the specific confusion byrnema is having: that no state of the world is objectively better than other, and implied conclusion along the lines of there being nothing to care about.
"Preferred by byrnema" is bad terminology because of another confusion, where she seems to assume that she knows what she really prefers. So, I could say "objectively more preferred by byrnema", but that can be misinterpreted as "objectively more the way byrnema thinks it should be", which is circular as the foundation for byrnema's own decision-making, just as with a calculator Y that when asked "2+2=?" thinks of an answer in the form "What will calculator Y answer?", and then prints out "42", which thus turns out to be a correct answer to "What will calculator Y answer?". By intermediary of the concept of "better", it's easier to distinguish what byrnema really prefers (but can't know in detail), and what she thinks she prefers, or knows of what she really prefers (or what is "better").
This comment probably does a better job at explaining the distinction, but it took a bigger set-up (and I'm not saying anything not already contained in Eliezer's metaethics sequence).
See also:
It was in the post for asking Eliezer Questions for his video interview.
It is one thing to use an idiosyncratic terminology yourself but quite another to interpret other people's more standard usages according to your definitions and respond to them as such. The latter is attacking a Straw Man and the fallaciousness of the argument is compounded with the pretentiousness.
Nope, can't find my comments on this topic there.
I assure you that I'm speaking in good faith. If you see a way in which I'm talking past byrnema, help me to understand.
Is this the thread you're referring to?
It is, thank you.
Ahh. I was thinking of the less wrong singularity article.
I don't doubt that. I probably should consider my words more carefully so I don't cause offence except when I mean to. Both because it would be better and because it is practical.
Assume I didn't use the word 'pretentious' and instead stated that "when people go about saying people are wrong I expect them to have a higher standard of correctness while doing so than I otherwise would." If you substituted "your thinking is insane" for "this is wrong" I probably would have upvoted.
I suspect it may be even more confusing if you pressed Vladmir into territory where his preferences did not match those of byrnema. I would then expect him to make the claim "You care about getting the world to be objectively <arbitrarily generated syllables>, I care about getting the world objectively better, while a pebble sorter cares about getting the world to be objectively more prime". But that line between 'sharing' better around and inventing words like booglewhatsit is often to be applied inconsistently so I cannot be sure on Vladmir's take.