pengvado comments on Deontology for Consequentialists - Less Wrong

46 Post author: Alicorn 30 January 2010 05:58PM

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Comment author: pengvado 30 January 2010 07:55:45PM *  10 points [-]

"Counterfactuals." Fourth thing on the bulleted list, straight outta Kant.

Any talk about consequences has to involve some counterfactual. Saying "outcome Y was a consequence of act X" is an assertion about the counterfactual worlds in which X isn't chosen, as well as those where it is. So if you construct your counterfactuals using something other than causal decision theory, and you choose an act (now) based on its consequences (in the past), is that another overlap between consequentialism and deontology?

Comment author: Alicorn 30 January 2010 08:01:09PM 0 points [-]

I can't parse your comment well enough to reply intelligently.

Comment author: loqi 30 January 2010 09:42:31PM 3 points [-]

What I think pengvado is getting at is that the concept of "consequence" is derived from the concept of "causal relation", which itself appears to require a precise notion of "counterfactual".

I read Newcomb's paradox as a counter-example to the idea that causality must operate forward in time. Essentially, one-boxing is choosing an act in the present based on its consequences in the past. This smells a bit like a Kantian counterfactual to me, but I haven't read Kant.

Comment author: Alicorn 30 January 2010 09:48:46PM 6 points [-]

There are many accounts of causation; some of them work in terms of counterfactuals and some don't. (I don't have many details; I've never taken a class on causation.) There is considerable disagreement about the extent to which causation must operate forward in time, especially in things like discussions of free will.

I haven't read Kant.

Don't. It's a miserable pastime.

Comment author: loqi 30 January 2010 10:24:29PM 5 points [-]

I'm pretty satisfied with Pearl's formulation of causality, it seems to capture everything of interest about the phenomenon. An account of causality that involves free will sounds downright unsalvageable, but I'd be interested in pointers to any halfway decent criticism of Pearl's approach.

Thanks for affirming my suspicions regarding Kant.