timtyler comments on BHTV: Eliezer Yudkowsky & Razib Khan - Less Wrong

12 Post author: MichaelGR 06 February 2010 02:27PM

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Comment author: wedrifid 07 February 2010 04:02:26AM *  2 points [-]

Does anyone else here have any familiarity with the field in question? I found Tim's reasoning from published research surprisingly convincing. Yet Razib has given an appeal to his own authority denying that data that also has some credibility behind it.

I don't have the background knowledge to resolve the disagreement myself and I get the impression that the literature will give conflicting viewpoints that are hard for me to unravel in an acceptable amount of time.

My prior p(Tim is right | he is disagreeing with someone else here) isn't very high but my prior p(someone is right | they have made a stand that would be a significantly socially detrimental to change in either the short or long term && their arguing seems oriented to consolidating their own status and questioning the status of the opponent) isn't much different. Actual evidence from Razib would, of course, have dominated other considerations.

I have updated somewhat in the direction of "genes that have some moderate or at least minor but significant correlation with IQ have been identified" but it would be more in my social interest to assert a position of hard agnosticism with respect to IQ-genes for the purpose of affiliation. I am open to persuasion on either the IQ-research evidence or on how my reasoning 'ought-to' go when I encounter this sort of ambiguous input.

I don't think I can trust karma too much in this case as I know my first impulses would bias my voting against Tim and towards the guy blogging heads with Eliezer and so don't expect others to be any different.

Comment author: timtyler 07 February 2010 10:55:24AM *  -1 points [-]

The target seems to have shifted quite a bit since:

"We are not finding any IQ genes"

There are plenty of genes for IQ - if you mean "for" in the standard techincal sense used by geneticists.

The issue has apparently been switched to whether there are any known genes with moderate effect on IQ, once you have ignored all the known genes with huge effects on it. That seems to be a rather more esoteric point - which would apparently need quantifying before being discussed in more detail.

Comment author: CarlShulman 07 February 2010 12:31:18PM *  5 points [-]

The issue hasn't been switched, but Razib didn't (and usually doesn't) optimize for resistance to misinterpretation in snarky pseudo-correction comments.

Razib and Eliezer were talking about the ability to score embryos based on genomes to select for IQ. To do that, one would need to know alleles responsible for a a substantial fraction of the population variation. Genome-wide-association studies haven't found those for IQ, where they have for, e.g. skin and eye color. Rare retardation-causing alleles that collectively explain less than 1% of that variation are a sideshow for prediction of population variation, the causes of normal variation differ. So meaningful embryo selection is feasible for skin color, but not for IQ. That's not esoteric, that was the concrete point in discussion that inspired Razib to mention the state of the search for IQ alleles.