Nisan comments on Harry Potter and the Methods of Rationality discussion thread - Less Wrong

34 Post author: Unnamed 27 May 2010 12:10AM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (866)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: Nisan 28 May 2010 08:11:19AM 3 points [-]

Eliezer previously considered the idea of a cabal of physicists keeping nuclear weapons a secret in this post. The idea turns up again in this chapter of Three Worlds Collide. Any thoughts? Would you feel safer if only super-rich physicists had access to nuclear weapons?

Comment author: Baughn 28 May 2010 12:30:24PM 3 points [-]

Not particularly. Apart from uncertainty of whether that would actually reduce threats in general, in the particular case of nuclear weapons it's relatively easy to argue that their existence has reduced suffering, overall.

Comment author: simplicio 01 June 2010 12:42:11PM 3 points [-]

...it's relatively easy to argue that their existence has reduced suffering, overall.

I'm not sure the temporary peace they bring is worth it considering how they up the ante. Sure, they probably prevented the Cold War getting hot. On the other hand, one nutcase or terrorist can erase all that utility pretty goddam fast. Hallelujah.

Comment author: Baughn 01 June 2010 10:19:58PM 1 point [-]

Right, it's easy to argue the other side too. :-)

Comment author: DanArmak 05 June 2010 08:10:22PM 1 point [-]

Yes, because there are so few super-rich physicists :-)

Comment author: JoshuaZ 05 June 2010 08:13:12PM 0 points [-]

Well, in such a world presumably more physicists would be super-rich. There would be other problems with such a world also. For example, if there are very few people with access to nukes then a first-strike attempt becomes much more plausible. Also, with only a few people knowing about something, the standard problems that come from security though obscurity will start showing up.

Comment author: DanArmak 05 June 2010 08:49:45PM *  1 point [-]

in such a world presumably more physicists would be super-rich.

In our world, there are various weapons that could be used to kill at least as many people as a nuclear bomb would. GE plague is one, and it's easy to believe that in the near future a competent biologist would be able to engineer a usable bioweapon at home. With that alternative in mind, I would love for GE bioweapons to only be accessible to super-rich biologists.

There are fewer super-rich physicists than there are ordinarily rich states who possess nuclear weapons. Plus, 90% of the actual use nuclear weapons get is deterrence, and secret nuclear weapons are useless for that. OTOH, for garage-based first strike capacity nuclear weapons aren't required, there are also bioweapons etc. That's why I'd rather the physicists had a monopoly.

Comment author: CronoDAS 05 June 2010 07:30:29PM 0 points [-]

Would you feel safer if only super-rich physicists had access to nuclear weapons?

Hell no!

Comment author: DanArmak 05 June 2010 08:20:30PM 0 points [-]

Why not?

Comment author: CronoDAS 06 June 2010 05:40:39PM 0 points [-]

Who holds the physicists accountable for their actions?

Comment author: DanArmak 07 June 2010 02:31:51PM 5 points [-]

Probably no-one. And today no-one really holds nations with nuclear capabilities accountable. How are physicists any worse?

Consider that physicists have fewer potential reasons to use nuclear weapons than do nations, or to go to "war" with one another. If they attacked one another, or third parties, they would not be able to protect themselves from (non-nuclear) retaliation as rulers of nations do, because they wouldn't have large territories and conventional armies. If they won the war, they wouldn't get any economical benefits; their only possible reason for using the nuclear weapons would be to kill some people. I consider that individual people, particularly those who are well-off and have a lot of money to solve problems with, are much less likely to want to kill others than are nations.