CronoDAS comments on What should I have for dinner? (A case study in decision making) - Less Wrong

23 Post author: bentarm 12 August 2010 01:29PM

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Comment author: CronoDAS 12 August 2010 03:16:34PM 7 points [-]

My conclusion has been: nobody really knows anything about nutrition, so I'm going to eat what I damn well please. (They used to say that margarine was better than butter, but now they've concluded that "trans fat" is actually worse than ordinary saturated fat.) Summing up all the various advice, it all seems to come down to "eating is bad for you." (And data on caloric restriction seems to confirm this!)

Remember this scene from Woody Allen's movie Sleeper?

Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called "wheat germ, organic honey and tiger's milk."
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or... hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy... precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.

Comment author: wedrifid 12 August 2010 03:33:32PM *  16 points [-]

That's a tempting conclusion but not a rational one. I know, for example, that:

  • If people don't eat things containing vitamin C their teeth will fall out.
  • People who live underground or, say, near one of the poles, need to consume more vitamin D.
  • Drinking a bottle of undiluted cordial when you are diabetic will probably damage you.
  • Living on a diet of almost entirely maize will give you dementia (and assorted other bodily symptoms up to and including death) due to Niacin deficiency. Consuming a large dose of Niacin will totally freak you out unless you know what to expect. Your skin will flush and hurt like hell but fortunately be doing far less damage than it may appear.
  • There are 8 amino acids that humans need to consume in their diet. Failure to consume these amino acids can cause things like Kwashiorkor.
Comment author: CronoDAS 12 August 2010 04:15:42PM *  1 point [-]

Point taken - "nothing at all" is certainly an exaggeration - but most people in the United States don't suffer from acute micronutrient deficiency (or amino acid deficiency).

Incidentally, another bit of "conventional wisdom" that's been overturned, along the lines of the butter/margarine reversal: according to controlled studies, large doses of antioxidants reduces life expectancy. And by "antioxidants" I mostly mean vitamin E:

Vitamin E supplementation was shown to increase the risk of heart failure in a 2005 study published in the Journal of the American Medical Association by Lonn, et al., which studied 7,000 people (JAMA. 2005 Mar 16;293(11):1338-47. Effects of long-term vitamin E supplementation on cardiovascular events and cancer: a randomized controlled trial.)

Source.

Comment author: wedrifid 12 August 2010 04:27:42PM *  3 points [-]

Incidentally, another bit of "conventional wisdom" that's been overturned, along the lines of the butter/margarine reversal: according to controlled studies, large doses of antioxidants reduces life expectancy. And by "antioxidants" I mostly mean vitamin E:

This does make you wonder just what on earth people were thinking when they thought extremely large doses of something fat soluble was a good idea. Crazy. I am somewhat wary of saying 'large doses of antioxidants reduces life expectancy'... that seems to be completely the wrong inference to make. Melatonin is a far stronger anti-oxidant than vitamin E but ridiculously high doses of melatonin don't cause the same problem. (By ridiculously high I refer to levels of antioxidising power that would require easily fatal levels of vitamin E to achieve.) Why don't they try the generalisation "large doses of fat soluble vitamins"? That's far more credible.

Comment author: CronoDAS 12 August 2010 05:38:23PM 0 points [-]

/me shrugs

I don't really know all the details, but "Eat this because it has antioxidants, which are good for you" still seems like a bit of a lie...

Comment author: wedrifid 13 August 2010 05:26:05AM 0 points [-]

Good point.

Comment author: ciphergoth 13 August 2010 06:57:04AM 0 points [-]

You're quoting fictional evidence. I'm afraid you've bought a media narrative that's almost entirely at odds with the truth. I strongly recommend Ben Goldacre's book Bad Science for more on this: healthy eating advice has stayed roughly the same for decades.

Comment author: CronoDAS 13 August 2010 07:07:51AM 2 points [-]

The "Sleeper" quote was a joke. :(

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