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Morendil comments on Less Wrong Book Club and Study Group - Less Wrong
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Hm. This is not quite on-topic, but I learned English that way, lo those many years ago. My dad is an avid science-fiction fan and his collection resided in the loo. As a kid I loved sci-fi, I'd gotten hooked after reading Star Beast (translated, natch). And everytime I went for a twinkle there was this treasure trove, mocking me because I couldn't understand a word of it.
So one day (must have been 11ish) I picked up an Asimov, a dictionary and a French translation. (Why? The Loo Library was sorted by author; I started with the A's.) I struggled through that first book, I have no idea how I didn't just give up, but I made it through. The next one came easier, I didn't rely on a translation. After a while I could pretty much do without the dictionary, and started building my vocabulary from unknown words made clear by contextual clues. By the time I started on Heinlein I was getting top grades in English at school, a nice added bonus.
I'd agree that my real fluency only came later, after I also got some practice writing. But I disagree that tackling a difficult but intrinsically rewarding work isn't a good way to enter a previously unknown domain of knowledge.
Further to that, and getting back on topic, there are places in Jaynes where I can tell that I'm missing some pieces of background knowledge (e.g. familiarity with binomial coefficient manipulations) that others are likely to have, that don't really detract from my understanding what's going on but do make it harder for me to reproduce the derivations, but that having others to help me would add some "icing on the cake" to my appreciation of the math.
I thought so as well, for many years, and it cost me dearly. The problem with math is that the more elementary tools won't be even mentioned in advanced specialized books, and are not necessary to parse them. The only efficient way to obtain them is to study from the ground up. Until recently, I was getting along on ability to parse more advanced texts relatively fine, but remained much weaker and near-sighted than I could have been. This made much of my previous study a waste of time, only moderately helping me to recapture the territory now.
I think one should learn on different levels at the same time:
If you only do what's convenient, your progress stops.
If you don't revisit the basics from time to time, you build on sand.
It is necessary to challenge oneself and at the same time work on the fundamentals. It is both inspiring and necessary to strike the right balance between the two extremes: A constant back and forth between them proved to be both the most productive and most entertaining for me personally.
This is the reason I am also interested in this study group: For me, it is revisiting the fundamentals. Although this book is relatively basic, it is very well written and focuses more on the right philosophy than the actual pragmatic issues. On the other hand, it is very detailed at places that other books easily take for granted and points out issues that other just step over. It is really a great reading to deepen one's knowledge. I am unsure though, whether it is the best introductory reading for someone who just wants to acquire a practical skill set.
This should be engraved somewhere in big letters.
So have I, but this didn't help with subtle understanding of those novels spent in learning. (I'm currently breaking into fluency in German using TV shows, and find this method more enjoyable.)
Wow, I was planning to ask if English wasn't your native language, since you said you lived in Paris but speak English like a native speaker ... guess that one's resolved! So French is your native language then?
Yep.
I tried, many years later, to do the same for German. Süskind's Die Taube was my first attempt, followed by Remarque's Der Funke Leben, I still have a few on my bookshelves. It didn't really work out - I can usually understand the gist of a text or conversation in German on a familiar topic, but I didn't have the motivation or the opportunities to stay invested in German as I was invested in English, and never achieved anywhere near the same fluency. There was also a more recent and short-lived attempt to start learning Icelandic. On the whole I'd rate my language-learning ability as unremarkable, but I have lots of experience with English.