AlephNeil comments on Two straw men fighting - Less Wrong

2 Post author: JanetK 09 August 2010 08:53AM

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Comment author: AlephNeil 22 April 2011 03:46:08PM *  0 points [-]

Imagine a 'coarse-grained' view of the agent, where we don't ask what's inside the agent's head. Then the agent has a huge spectrum of possible actions - our uncertainty about the action taken is massive.

Finding out what's inside the agent's head resolves either 'most' or 'all' of the uncertainty, according as physics is indeterministic or deterministic respectively. If physics is indeterministic then some uncertainty remains, and the resolution of this uncertainty cannot be explained by reference to the agent's preferences, and cannot serve as a meaningful basis for freedom.

The point is: that extra bit of uncertainty on the end, which you only get with indeterministic physics, doesn't give any extra scope whatsoever for 'free will' or 'moral responsibility'.

I heartily agree with you that

the very varied pre-existing states of people's minds/brains has a major influence on their choices. Physics cannot make them choose something they never had in mind. Their choices evolve out of their dispositions under both determinism and indeterminism."

I can't figure out why you're making disagreement noises while putting forward the same exact view as mine!

Comment author: Peterdjones 22 April 2011 03:54:23PM 0 points [-]

Some irresoluble uncertainty about what an agent will do is the only meaningful basis for freedom. (Other solutions are in fact disolutions) The point is how an agent can have that freedom without complete disconnection of their actions from their character, values, etc. The answer is to pay attention to quantifiers. Some indeterminism does not mean complete indeterminism, and so does not mean complete disconnection.

Comment author: AlephNeil 22 April 2011 04:01:46PM 0 points [-]

Sorry but I think that's confused, for reasons I've already explained.

Honestly, you'd enjoy reading Nagel. If it helps, he's an anti-reductionist just like you, who doesn't think in terms of 'dissolving' philosophical problems.

Comment author: Peterdjones 22 April 2011 04:10:01PM 0 points [-]

I didn't say I was anti reductionist. I find this us-and-them stuff rather annoying.

Comment author: AlephNeil 22 April 2011 04:16:02PM 0 points [-]

OK. Replace the word "who" with "in that he" in my previous comment.

Comment author: Peterdjones 22 April 2011 04:28:08PM 0 points [-]

I don't mind dissolving prolbems if all else fails. But you cannot reduce everything to nothing.