john1781 comments on A sense of logic - Less Wrong

13 Post author: NancyLebovitz 10 December 2010 06:19PM

You are viewing a comment permalink. View the original post to see all comments and the full post content.

Comments (269)

You are viewing a single comment's thread.

Comment author: john1781 11 December 2010 04:11:57PM 5 points [-]

The stomach pain from mental distress is quite a common phenomenon, due to the enteric nervous system (also referred to as "the brain in the gut"). We have an amazing number of neurons in our digestive system-- roughly the size of a cat's brain. Strong emotional responses (like fear, anger, or disgust) are transmitted from the brain in the head to the brain in the gut, often resulting in pain or other discomfort.

Comment author: wedrifid 11 December 2010 04:20:18PM *  0 points [-]

We have an amazing number of neurons in our digestive system-- roughly the size of a cat's brain. Strong emotional responses (like fear, anger, or disgust) are transmitted from the brain in the head to the brain in the gut, often resulting in pain or other discomfort.

Now that is fascinating. Do you have a reference I can look at further?

Comment author: David_Gerard 11 December 2010 05:02:47PM 2 points [-]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enteric_nervous_system

It's about 100 million neurons. (Compare 1000x that in the brain.)

Comment author: Vladimir_Nesov 11 December 2010 10:15:34PM 3 points [-]

The more interesting question is whether the strong emotions do indeed cause discomfort in the gut.

Comment author: AlexGreen 11 December 2010 11:55:31PM 3 points [-]

I've also been told that trauma for the stomach can effect the emotional state, and I can personally attest to feeling distressed, then eating a good sized meal and feeling better afterwords; Also connecting with fast food and eating disorders.

But this could also be an old wives tale, and I'm suffering from a placebo effect.

Comment author: Normal_Anomaly 27 April 2012 06:59:18PM 1 point [-]

I can personally attest to feeling distressed, then eating a good sized meal and feeling better afterwords

I was under the impression (I don't recall from where) that this was due to the effect of blood sugar levels on mood. No evidence for this other than that I become irritable when hungry, but it's an alternative explanation.

Comment author: john1781 12 December 2010 09:33:41PM 0 points [-]

One interesting source is Heribert Watzke's Ted Talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/heribert_watzke_the_brain_in_your_gut.html

You could also look at http://www.psyking.net/id36.htm

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 12 December 2010 10:56:05PM 4 points [-]

See also the Second Brain-- a fairly detailed book about the elaborate nervous system which runs digestion.

Unfortunately, I lost my copy when I was about halfway through, but I treasure knowing something about the complexity needed to manage storing stomach acid-- stuff which is there to break up proteins-- in the middle of a body built out of protein.

First, the acid isn't made inside cells. There's some chemistry that I didn't understand which makes it possible for the components of stomach acid to combine with each other outside of cells.

And there's a system for adding appropriate amounts of a base to neutralize the acid as the stomach contents head out into the intestines, not to mention a not perfectly reliable valve(?) system for keeping the acid from moving higher in the digestive tract than it should.

Anyway, the book has a history of the development of an understanding that the nerves which run the digestive tract are fairly independent of the brain-- as is commonly the case, it was a hard fight to get the idea across.

I'm not sure how much there is about the connection between the digestive nervous system and emotions, but I gather from the amazon description that there's a conclusion that a lot of digestive problems are from poor regulation of the organs rather than in the organs themselves.

Comment author: wedrifid 13 December 2010 02:30:21AM 1 point [-]

I treasure knowing something about the complexity needed to manage storing stomach acid-- stuff which is there to break up proteins-- in the middle of a body built out of protein.

You know, I'd never even considered that. An impressive feat. :)