Sniffnoy comments on Procedural Knowledge Gaps - Less Wrong

126 Post author: Alicorn 08 February 2011 03:17AM

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Comment author: Sniffnoy 08 February 2011 05:40:42AM 6 points [-]

Err towards generous tipping.

Actually, this is something I meant to ask about. Not how much to tip, which has well been covered elsewhere, but how one goes about the actual action of giving someone a tip. (I am generalizing beyond bars here).

Comment author: [deleted] 08 February 2011 07:41:45PM 2 points [-]

The advice given here is good, but is US-specific. For those with this predicament in the UK, if you're in a bar then the correct procedure is to say "And one for yourself" - this allows the bartender to take between a nominal tip and the cost of the drink. Tipping is less common in British bars than USian ones, but not unknown. Restaurant tipping follows the same rules as the US.

A complete guide to English pub etiquette can be found at http://real-ale.dreamwidth.org/1252.html

Comment author: wiresnips 08 February 2011 06:22:51AM *  2 points [-]

You tip when you pay, whether you're running a bill or buying drinks one by one.

If you're paying by card, usually the little card-swipey-machine(?) will ask if you want to tip, and how much. Nice and easy.

If you're paying cash, you can drop some into a visible tip jar, or leave a little pile on the bar/table. It's convenient to overpay and then use some or all of your change for this. You don't need to stick around to watch this be picked up. edit: absolutely agree with JoshuaZ- you should wait for your change. After accepting it you don't need to be present when the bartender gets the tip.

Sometimes, more in semi-classy restaurants, a waiter/ess will ask if you want change- if you say no, the difference is tip.

Comment author: JoshuaZ 08 February 2011 06:17:33AM 1 point [-]

It depends on the environment. For some things one just asks explicitly for less change. This works well with taxis. (Say there's an 7$ taxi ride, give a $10 and ask for $1 back). Another option in many contexts is to pay with the tip included and have it included in a way that shows it is obviously a tip based on the denominations in question (for example, if our taxi cost $9 and you hand them $11.25 it is obvious that you intended to tip $2.25)

Things to avoid: Do not give a large bill and say "keep the change" even if this is makes a generous tip or makes precisely the tip you want to give. The standard connotations of this are all negative (including but not limited to that you are rich, can't be bothered to think about change, can't be bothered to think about what is the right size tip, and don't really care much about the person you are tipping). If you only have a single bill it is better to tip less and get some small amount of change back than to say "keep the change." Another related thing to avoid is that when one is asking back for a specific amount of change, some people get annoyed if you ask for bills in specific denominations or specific coins. This seems to vary more by area and specific individual but it seems better to just avoid as an issue.

Comment author: Blueberry 08 February 2011 07:21:37AM 8 points [-]

Do not give a large bill and say "keep the change" even if this is makes a generous tip or makes precisely the tip you want to give. The standard connotations of this are all negative (including but not limited to that you are rich, can't be bothered to think about change, can't be bothered to think about what is the right size tip, and don't really care much about the person you are tipping). If you only have a single bill it is better to tip less and get some small amount of change back than to say "keep the change."

Wow, this is very much counter to everything I've heard and thought! When I think of someone saying "keep the change," I think of someone who is rich and generous and carefree. It doesn't have any of the negative connotations you suggest. And from the point of view of someone who's worked in service and lived on tips, I would definitely prefer a larger tip accompanied by the words "keep the change" than a smaller tip.

Comment author: [deleted] 08 February 2011 05:18:05PM *  4 points [-]

And from the point of view of someone who's worked in service and lived on tips, I would definitely prefer a larger tip accompanied by the words "keep the change" than a smaller tip.

Yes. I've worked as a waitress and I agree with you. I had no problem with hearing "keep the change" so long as the bill offered was large enough.

Another (possibly nicer?) way of phrasing it is "I don't need any change."

Comment author: NancyLebovitz 08 February 2011 07:30:55AM 2 points [-]

I'd have thought that the big advantage for the server of "keep the change" is that it's one less transaction, so the server spends less time to get a tip.

Comment author: simplyeric 08 February 2011 05:27:06PM 7 points [-]

I spend more time than I should at bars (I like my sports, and don't own a TV..), and I've developed a few rules of thumb:

  1. I never say "keep the change"...but I often say "I'm all set, thanks" if I hand them a $20 for $18 of drinks, (or $17..) for example. "I'm all set" has the same effective meaning as "keep the change", but without the connotations.
  2. Overtip...in moderation. Standard American fare: $1 per drink. If you order 3 drinks, tip 3 dollars. If you order 8 drinks at once, it depends. If you ordered 8 bottles of Bud, you could tip $5-$6...if you ordered 8 mixed drinks, $8-$10. If you order 1 drink at a time, but stay for a while and order a handful of drinks, consider occasionally tossing in an extra dollar now and then. (an $18 martini sometimes, but not always, merits $2 for one drink...it depends. If the bartender is aloof and self important, I only tip $1)
  3. Women often tip less than men. NOTE: this varies WIDELY, in both how it's done and how people react to it. A bunch of single girls at a bar will often order 3-4 drinks, and leave a dollar. In some places that's "the cost of doing business", in others it will get you worse service over time (I'll point out that there's a countervailing trend where some women type MORE than men, in part because some of their peers tip less...it's confusing)
  4. Ordering: get up to the bar, make your presence know as subtly as possible 4.a. hand on the bar with two fingers slightly extended, like a half-hearted peace sign, or with money/card in the hand but not flagrantly displayed 4.b. eye contact. Watch the bartender...as he/she turns and scans, give a nod, raise the eyebrows, like in a quiet cordial non-vocal greeting)... but then BE PATIENT.
    Once you've registered your presence, they will mentally que you up and come to you in your turn. Be ready to order, or have minimal questions. (note: obviously this will fail sometimes..start subtle, and increase efforts bit by bit...waving or "excuse me" is a last resort)
  5. be quick, friendly, humble, quick, curteous, and quick. Not servile...just, cordially professional. If you want to throw in humor or more interaction, do it while they are pouring your drink. Don't slow down the process by making the joke stand on it's own
  6. When ordering: Speak clearly...enunciate, (slightly) exagerrate lip movement...these people are professionals and will try to read your lips if it's noisy.
  7. When ordering: know what you want (as much as is possible). If you order "vodka and x_" be prepared to answer type of vodka (or whatever alcohol is involved). If you don't know what brand, say "I don't know...whatever's good" and you'll probably get a standard brand. If you say "I don't care" you'll usually get "well" which is the cheapest (but some "scene" places will give you something expensive). If you actually don't care, say "house" or "well"...sometimes this will taste bad, but it's cheaper.
  8. If there's space, belly up to the bar! (as you see fit) If it's crowded, don't insist on having to have full shoulder width at the bar. Stand perpendicular, lean in on your elbow to order, etc

Other things to look out for: -guys, don't necessarily tip cute waitresses more. I mean, by all means feel free. But it gets silly sometimes -guys, if the waitress/bartender is cute in...specific visual ways... do make an effort to look up at her face when you are talking to her -girls, if you tip less, fine. But don't be stingy "just because you can get away with it"

[note: this post is making me want to reassess my lifestyle. ooof]

Comment author: MartinB 08 February 2011 05:39:52PM 2 points [-]

And all of this is culture coded and may vary for your specific location or subtype of bar.

A general safe way to go is to observe what other people do.

Sidenote: since i only started drinking late in life and did not yet develop a favorite drink I often order a) local b) the same as my peer(s) c) by name only. Many people seem to act as if there is an objectively best drink to order. But I would guess that is wrong. Feel free to try.

Comment author: simplyeric 09 February 2011 03:49:18PM 1 point [-]

And all of this is culture coded and may vary for your specific location or subtype of bar.

Absolutely. Although I'll mention that I've had good luck with this general approach in various parts (both geographically and demographically) of the United States, Western Europe, and at least one part of Eastern Europe. But, I'd like to reinforce:

A general safe way to go is to observe what other people do.

This is absolutely the best advice...but be careful to observe the right people. Observe the people who seem to get drinks "effortlessly" (rather than the people who are more aggressive...they create a visual nuisance that makes them more noticeable, thus more "observable" by someone who is new to a situation).

Many people seem to act as if there is an objectively best drink to order. But I would guess that is wrong. Feel free to try.

Again, totally true. However, I'd say that there can be times where there is an objectively "wrong" drink to order. Nothing is absolute, of course. But, don't order martinis in a crowded dive bar, for example. Don't order a Jaeger Bomb at an elegant cocktail lounge. I mean, by all means, DO order those. Just keep in mind that some places might actually refuse, or it might simply be seen as socially awkward.

Comment author: Vladimir_M 09 February 2011 01:05:52AM *  4 points [-]

JoshuaZ:

Things to avoid: Do not give a large bill and say "keep the change" even if this is makes a generous tip or makes precisely the tip you want to give.

What is the exact source of this information? In a few years of living in (Anglophone) Canada, I've never heard of this. In fact, once you get the bill and put the money on the table, the waiter will often ask if you need any change. (Especially if the bill comes in that small folder and you close it over the money so he can't see how much you left when taking it.)

Comment author: JoshuaZ 09 February 2011 01:35:04AM 3 points [-]

shrug it is something I remember being told explicitly when I was younger. It is possible that whoever told me was simply wrong.

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