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army1987 comments on Procedural Knowledge Gaps - Less Wrong
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I wasn't talking about dance classes, I was talking about ‘improvised’ dancing -- as I expected the second part of the sentence to make clear (but on re-reading it I can see it wasn't as clear as I thought). Why would lessons have more of an effect than improvisation? I'd expect it to be the other way round, especially given that you mentioned the “chooses which moves happen at which time” thing before.
Or maybe I have other things to do with 15 minutes than hugging a random stranger. Opportunity costs, anyone?
Yes, but wouldn't that apply more to improvised dancing than to beginners' dancing classes?
My AQ as measured by the online test linked to in the latest LW survey (FWIW) was 25, and still I usually feel little to no anxiety while dancing; if anything, I usually feel less anxiety while dancing than the rest of the time.
False dichotomy. Those aren't the only two places you can dance.
So, when you said “the fact that someone doesn't dance in no way implies that he hasn't learned the same skills in other context” you were thinking of going around wearing free hugs signs? That sounds even less plausible to me.
That's a completely different objection than saying that the activity is boring. If you change around your objections in that way it's likely that you are in the process of rationalizing some fear of intimicy.
What do you mean when you say "improvised dancing"? Do you already have the skills to spend a significant amount of time dancing closely with a women in nightclub settings?
Isn't the feeling that you could do something more fun with your time what boredom is?
For such a broad definition of “intimacy” as yours, I'm pretty sure I have very little fear of intimacy itself.
e.g. this (I'm the tall guy with glasses and a black T-shirt). (That was over a year ago, I may have gotten better --or worse-- since.)
What amount of time would you consider to be significant, and are you talking about women I already know or about strangers? (Also, “in nightclub settings” isn't a terribly homogeneous category IME, women tend to be fussier in some of those than in others.)
I don't advocate doing it primarily for fun but to learn something. Sometimes good learning experiences are boring.
At the beginning of the video you are touching the hand of a girl but expect for the part where you spin her it doesn't look like you have much contact with her. When it comes to the girl on the end you have a bit more contact but not much more.
If dancing like that feels like you aren't leading the girl it's because you actually aren't leading.
Most of the time that this video goes you aren't touching a woman. If you are taking a dancing lesson you are basically all the time touching.
Let me give you a link to a beginner kizomba lesson: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbYChD5b9VE Watch that video and compare the amount of physically intimacy that you have in your video with the women and the amount of physical intimicy that you see in that beginner kizomba lesson. Some beginner kizomba lesson might be a bit less intimite but that level of intimicy can exist in beginner kizomba lessons.
If you do a lot of that kind of improvised dancing that you showed in your video, I would recommend you to take Bachata lessons over Kizomba lessons. Beginner bachata lessons are a bit less intimite than beginner kizomba lessons but you learn a bunch of things that will improve your improvised dancing.
Once you learn Bachata decently it looks like http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2y5YAdHfT9Q&list=PL07372236D9BBFDBD . That an average dance that you could see between two strangers who just meet at a decent social Bachata event.
(I often do have more contact than that (depending on what the music is like, who the woman is, and my mood), though I'm not sure whether anyone has shot any decent videos of that. OTOH, I'm pretty sure I'm a lot clumsier than the people in your videos.)
Thanks for the feedback (people usually say that I am doing great, but probably they just say that in order not to discourage me -- or maybe in a few cases because they can't tell the levels above theirs apart¹) and for the pointers, anyway.
It always depends on what your comparision is. If you manage to let go, move to the beat and visbily have fun while doing it you might be better than 50% of the people who do improvised dancing at a nightclub.
And if you manage to implement FizzBuzz in a couple minutes you might be better than 50% of the people who have a comp sci degree.
The standard threshold of non-crappiness is the 90th percentile, not the 50th... :-)
To get to the 90th, presumably you have to pass through the 50th.
Nevertheless I'm adding that to my fortune file so that I will be regularly reminded, because it really is important.
Wouldn't that depend on where you started from?
Sometime between when you read my comment and when I read your reply, I edited my comment to make it less harsh, e.g. replacing “tsuyoku naritai” with a smile; maybe I should edit it back? :-)
The point is that whether you are good depends on the people to which you compare yourself.
I danced Salsa/Bachata for the last 4 years 2-3 nights per week. That means that I will see different things in your dancing than the average person that you meet.
I do improvise within my dancing and deviate from dance school pattern. I'm still not the person who regularly tries to dance in nightclubs to pop music or the kind of music that exists at the place of your video.
How does that mesh with “people don't feel emotions because of the knowledge that they have”? :-)
(FWIW, one of the people who sees me dancing much of the time (the girlfriend of one of the karaoke jockeys in that video) and sometimes compliments me, and has also danced with me in nightclubs a few times, is a belly dancing instructor, but that may be too different from anything else to be relevant; her sister is a Bollywood dance instructor, and also usually compliments me dancing, but that's generally in the context of thanking me for being the only male in this thing she'd organized and/or of trying to convince me to take classes with her again, so she might be gilding the pill on purpose.)
As far as I understand belly dancing isn't something where the guy has to lead the girl. There, the criteria of what good dancing equals is different.
Not in my experience, except in a very degenerate sense. There seems to be some threshold of entertainment below which I'm inclined to describe my state as bored; above that threshold, I may not be having as much fun as possible, but that's not the same thing at all.