jimrandomh comments on Philosophy: A Diseased Discipline - Less Wrong

88 Post author: lukeprog 28 March 2011 07:31PM

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Comment author: jimrandomh 29 March 2011 09:58:29PM 1 point [-]

"Algorithm" is a type; things can be algorithms in the same sense that 5 is an integer and {"hello","world"} is a list<string>. This does not depend on the observer, or even the existence of an observer.

Comment author: AlephNeil 29 March 2011 10:52:03PM *  3 points [-]

I'm not sure you understand where quen tin is coming from. He would regard integers, list<strings> and "algorithms" in your sense as abstract entities, and maintain (as a point so fundamental that it's never spelled out) that abstract entities are not physically real. At most they provide patterns that we can usefully superimpose on various 'systems' in the world.

The point isn't whether or not abstract entities are observer-dependent, the point is that the business of superimposing abstract entities on real things is observer-dependent (on quen tin's view). And observers themselves are "real things" not abstracta.

(Not that I agree with this personally, but it's important to at least understand how others view things.)

Comment author: Jack 29 March 2011 11:01:11PM 0 points [-]

There is a sense in which the view of the universe that just consists of me (an algorithm) receiving input from the universe (another algorithm) feels like it's missing something, it's the intuition the Chinese room argument pumps. I've never really found a good way to unpump it. But attempts to articulate that other component keep falling apart so...

Comment author: quen_tin 29 March 2011 10:11:23PM -1 points [-]

I think it does.

{"hello", "world"} is a set of lighted pixels on my screen, or a list of characters in a text file containing source code, or a list of bytes in my computer's memory, but in any case, there must be an observer so that they can be interpreted as a list of string. The real list of string only exists inside my representation.

Comment author: Jack 29 March 2011 10:19:21PM 1 point [-]

Pretty sure I can write code that makes these same interpretations.

Comment author: quen_tin 29 March 2011 10:46:17PM -1 points [-]

Your code is a list of characters in a text file, or a list of bytes in your computer's memory. Only you interpret it as a code that interprets something.

Comment author: Jack 29 March 2011 10:51:58PM *  0 points [-]

What does it mean to 'interpret' something?

Edit: or rather, what does it mean for me to interpret something, 'cause I know exactly what it means for code to do it.